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Za-Ilmaknun
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PM Abiy unpacking TPLF's Centralized ethnic Apartheid system sold as Federalism . What is different now?

Post by Za-Ilmaknun » 14 Oct 2020, 17:48

It is very interesting to see how PM Abiy disassembles the myth built around the so called ethnic federalism and show how the system has been used as vehicle to enrich only the selected few Tigreans and their enablers by looting the country. He clearly talks about the top -down decision making process in the TPLF led Ethiopia and, how other parties were there in name only. Except the four Regional parties, the others 5 Regional parties didn't even have the chance to hear what was talked about in the 4 killo political chamber.

The Afars, Benshangul, Harrari, Gambella ...and Somali Regions were treated as aliens in their own country and, their political ambitions curtailed to regional level only. This has been the Federal system that TPLF imbeciles are still trying to breath life in to...before it dies its natural death.
Hear it from the horses mouth.... :mrgreen:


Wedi
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Re: PM Abiy unpacking TPLF's Centralized ethnic Apartheid system sold as Federalism . What is different now?

Post by Wedi » 14 Oct 2020, 18:04

Za-Ilmaknun, we all hate TPLF but our hate towards TPLF is not because they are from Tigriay Our hate to TPLF is because of its apartheid system

Ethiopian people fought and removed TPLF not to be replaced by another power greedy and another Ormmuma apartheid system

Galla Abiy Ahmed is effectively following the following 7 Steps to Becoming a perfect Dictator and creating his own dynasty.

1. Expand your power base through nepotism and corruption.
2. Instigate a monopoly on the use of force to curb public protest.
3. Curry favour by providing public goods efficiently and generously.
4. Get rid of your political enemies...
5. Create and defeat a common enemy.
6. Accumulate power by manipulating the hearts and minds of your citizens.
7. Create an ideology to justify an exalted position.

Sadacha Macca
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Re: PM Abiy unpacking TPLF's Centralized ethnic Apartheid system sold as Federalism . What is different now?

Post by Sadacha Macca » 14 Oct 2020, 18:35

Wedi=Tarik.

Anyways. It is NOT the system of governance, which is of course, going to inevitably have its flaws just like the systems before it did, that enabled the TPLF to loot. It is the might is right concept that did. Mengistu looted. Haile selassie had millions upon millions in offshore accounts. Do you blame the systems of governance for their looting too, then? If so, then be vocal about that, say it every time you choose to condemn the federalist, albeit flawed, system of governance we have now. IF you do not do so, then you'll just confirm that, you are another Amhara ''unionist-extremist,'' as opposed to what you want to portray yourself to be [a just/middle of the road, ''ethiopianist.'' or etc...

Like it or not, federalism is the only way to keep Ethiopia together, and the only ones crying about it are some Amhara's who long for the old system which benefitted them mostly, to the detriment of others. It just needs to be improved upon, as opposed to being completely dismantled.

Wedi
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Joined: 29 Jan 2020, 21:44

Re: PM Abiy unpacking TPLF's Centralized ethnic Apartheid system sold as Federalism . What is different now?

Post by Wedi » 14 Oct 2020, 19:37

Sadacha Macca how many federal system are their? You are covering the poison in the name of federalism!!

TGAA
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Re: PM Abiy unpacking TPLF's Centralized ethnic Apartheid system sold as Federalism . What is different now?

Post by TGAA » 14 Oct 2020, 20:28

ወያኔ ያዋቀረውን የፌደራል ስርአት በተመለከተ ይህ የአብይ ቪዲዮ በግልጽ ይስቀመጠበት ትንታኔ ነው ፡፡ ምንም እንኳን የወያኔን ፊደራሊዝም ምን እንደሆነ ያስቀመጥበት መንገድ የምናውቀውና ትክክል አገላለጽ ቢሆንም ፤ የአብይ አመለካከት ወይም ፍላጎት የወያኔን የጉጥ ፊደራሊዝም ለማጠናከር ነው፤ ይህ እንዲሆን የፈለገበትም ዋና ምክንያት እርሱ በሰከነ መልክ ኦሮሙማን አሽናፊ ሆኖ ጭፍላቂ ስርአት ለማድረግ ነው፡ እውነተኛ ፊደራሊዝም የግለሰብ የማይነኩ መብቶችንና ግዴታዎችን አስቀምጦ በሁሉም ፊደራል መዋቅር ውስጥ መንግስት ሊነካቸው የማይገቡ መብቶች መሆናቸውን አምኖ ፊዴሪሽኑን ካላዋቀረ ጉጠኞች የሚጫወቱበት የጎጠኝ፤አምባ ገነናዊ ስርአት ነው የሚሆነው ፤ ያለምንም ጥርጥር ፡ ምሳሌውን ስንመለከተው የሚያሳየውም ይሄንን ነው ፡ የኛን የፕላኔት ሲስተም እንደ ምሳሌ አድርጎ ጽሀይ (የፊደራል ሲስተሙ ) ከዚያ ደግሞ 8 ፕላኔቶች እንደ ፈዴራል ስቴት አድርጎ ነው ያስቀመጣቸው ፡ ለምሳሌ ስቴቶች ወደፌደራሉ በጣም ከተጠጉ ይቀልጣሉ ( በኦሮሞዎች የሚመራው የፊደራል መንግስት ኢትዮጵያ ዋና ከተማ ወደ ኦሮሞ እንደትቀልጥና በኦሮሞ እንደትዋጥ በአቤቤና በታከለ ኡማ ሲሰራ አብይ ግድ የለውም _ ማለትም መቅለጥ ያለባቸውና መቅለጥ የሌለባቸው ፕላኔቶች አሉ ማለት ነው) በጣም ከራቁ ደግሞ ከመህዋራቸው ለቀው ይወጣሉ ይለናል ፡፡ ግን ፊዴራል መንግስት ማለት በተለያዩ መውሃር ላይ የሚዞሩ የተለያዩ ፕላኔቶች አይደሉም ለምሳሌ ሁሉም የፌደራል ስቴቶች የግል ሰቦችን ሰብአዊና ዲሞክራሲያዊ መብቶችን በተመለከተ የማይዳፈሯቸው ወይም ህግ ሊያውጡባቸው የማይችሉባችው የህግ ዘርፎች አሉ ፡፡ የንግድ ግኑኙነትን በተመለከተ በየተለያዩ የፌደራሉ ስቴቶች ማህከል ኢኮኖሚያዊ ነጻ ገበያን የሚያስተጓጉሉ ህጎች በፊደራል ሲስተም ዉስጥ ሊወጡ አይችሉም ፡ በጀርመንም ሆነ በአሜሪካ ፊደራል ሲስተም ውስጥ እነንኚህ በጭራሽ ስቴቶች ሊነኩት የማይችሉት ጉዳይ ነው፡፡ የፌደራል መንግስቱ በአንድ ስቴት ውስጥ የሚኖሩ ዜጎቹ ፤ የስቴቱ የጸጥታ አውታሮች በዘር ማጥፋት ድርጊት ቢፈጽሙ ወይም ሲፍጸም አቅም እያላችው ህዝቡን ባይከላከሉ የፌደራል ስቴቱን ፍቃድ ጠብቆ ሳይሆን የሚገባው ስቴቱ ፍለገም አልፍለገም ገብቶ ዜጎችን ይከላከላል፡፡ አብይ ስለግለሰቦች የተወሰነ ነገሮችን ብሎል መስራት መኖር እንደመብታቸው ሳይሆን ልክ የክልሎች በጎ ፍቃድ አድርጎ ነው ያቀረበው ፡፡ ወደኋላ ሄደን ስናስታውስ አምስት የኦሮሞ ድርጅቶች እና በዚያ ግዜ የነበረው ኦዲፒ ስለአዲስ አበባ መግለጫ ሲያወጡ ፤ አዲስ አበባ የኦሮምያ ናት ግን ሌሎች መኖር ይችላሉ መብታቸው ተከብሮላቸው ነበር ያሉት ፤ አሁንም በአብይ አገላለጽ ግለሰብ ኢትዮጵያዊያን በሄዱበት በሚኖሩበት እንደዜጋ በህግ የተረጋገጠ መብት ኖሯቸው ሳይሆን የሚኖሩት በፊደራል ስቴቱ ውሳኔና ፍቃድ ነው ፡፡ በተላያየ መህዋር ላይ የሚዞር ፕላኔት ላይ ስለምንኖር ይህ አስተሳሰቡ በጭራሽ አያስገርምም፡፡ እንደማጠቃለያ በአሁኑ ሰአት በአማራዎች ላይ የሚካሄደው ጭፍጨፋ ፤ የመንግስት ግድየለሽነትና ፤ የወንጀል ሸፋፋኝነት አውቆ የሚሰራ ሴራ ነው ፡፡ ይህ ብቻ ሳይሆን አሁን በቅርብ ደግሞ ኢዜማ ላይ የሚደረገውም የዚሁ ኢትዮጵያዊያንንና አማራን በማዋከብ ሀይልን ለማጠናከር የሚደረግ ሴራ ነው ፡፡ ነገር ግን ከሁሉም በላይ የአማራ ብልጽግና የተጠሪነትና የሀላፊነት ወስዶ የሚወክለውን ህዝብ አለመከላከል መቻሉ የኦሮሙማን ጥጋብ መስመር እየሳተ እንዲመጣ አድርጎታል ፡፡ ነገሩ ወደ ግጭት እንደሚያመራ ምንም ጥርጥር የለውም ፤ አንዴ ሁለቴ ማታለል ይቻላል ነገር ግን ሁል ግዜም ሁሉም ቦታ ማታለል አይቻልም ፡፡ ወያኔዎች በጣም የሚያሳዝኑ ፤ የማይለወጡ ፤ መድረቅን እንደ ርእዮት አቃም የያዙ ፤ ከመሰበር በቀር መታጠፍ የማይችሉ ስዎች ስለሆኑ ፤ እነርሱን ከማየት በቀር ምንም ማድረግ አይቻልም ፡፡ ነገር ግን ኢትዮጵያዊያን የአብይን አፍ ፓርክ በማየት ከሚደነዝዙ ፤ ነገ የሚመጥውን ፤የሚጠብቃቸውን ከአሁኑ ለማሰወገድ የወገብ አጥንት ቢያወጡ ይሻላሉ ፡፡ አሁን አሁን አብይን ኢትዮጵያ ዝማሬ በድሮ ታሪክ ፍቅር ለተጠመዱ አማሮችና ኢትዮጵያዊያንን የማሸለብያ ማደንዘዣ ነው ፤

Za-Ilmaknun
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Posts: 2312
Joined: 15 Jun 2018, 17:40

Re: PM Abiy unpacking TPLF's Centralized ethnic Apartheid system sold as Federalism . What is different now?

Post by Za-Ilmaknun » 14 Oct 2020, 20:39

Sadacha Macca wrote:
14 Oct 2020, 18:35
Wedi=Tarik.

Anyways. It is NOT the system of governance, which is of course, going to inevitably have its flaws just like the systems before it did, that enabled the TPLF to loot. It is the might is right concept that did. Mengistu looted. Haile selassie had millions upon millions in offshore accounts. Do you blame the systems of governance for their looting too, then? If so, then be vocal about that, say it every time you choose to condemn the federalist, albeit flawed, system of governance we have now. IF you do not do so, then you'll just confirm that, you are another Amhara ''unionist-extremist,'' as opposed to what you want to portray yourself to be [a just/middle of the road, ''ethiopianist.'' or etc...

Like it or not, federalism is the only way to keep Ethiopia together, and the only ones crying about it are some Amhara's who long for the old system which benefitted them mostly, to the detriment of others. It just needs to be improved upon, as opposed to being completely dismantled.
Sadacha Macca,

Welcome to the field. Haven't seen your inputs for some time.

The PM is saying that there was the worst form of Centralized government in the country for the last 27 years...but presenting itself as Federalist. Menge was a totalitarian communist Junta who exterminated Amharas more than any other ethnic group in that country. He nationalized every hut they built in the country and reduced them to beggars. If you don't know ..Menge is Oromo too ethnically speaking...unless of course you call him Neftegna same way most Oromo elites like to refer to our current PM as well.

Hailesilassie was a feudal emperor who ruled the very backward country with how he understood kingship should be. Perspective and and time references are of paramount importance when we are discussing about governments. Now both systems have been gone long before I came to this planet. We are here and now trying to correct historical mistakes and chart a future that can accommodate our interests based on merits ....not based on to which tribe we belong to. Unless we are to have such a system, everything and anything that are done because of "might is right" will definitely have a short span of life and dangerously regressive. Now you may call that system Federalism or anything else isn't that important to me.

Sadacha Macca
Senior Member
Posts: 10654
Joined: 22 Feb 2014, 16:46

Re: PM Abiy unpacking TPLF's Centralized ethnic Apartheid system sold as Federalism . What is different now?

Post by Sadacha Macca » 16 Oct 2020, 17:09

Za-Ilmaknun wrote:
14 Oct 2020, 20:39
Sadacha Macca wrote:
14 Oct 2020, 18:35
Wedi=Tarik.

Anyways. It is NOT the system of governance, which is of course, going to inevitably have its flaws just like the systems before it did, that enabled the TPLF to loot. It is the might is right concept that did. Mengistu looted. Haile selassie had millions upon millions in offshore accounts. Do you blame the systems of governance for their looting too, then? If so, then be vocal about that, say it every time you choose to condemn the federalist, albeit flawed, system of governance we have now. IF you do not do so, then you'll just confirm that, you are another Amhara ''unionist-extremist,'' as opposed to what you want to portray yourself to be [a just/middle of the road, ''ethiopianist.'' or etc...

Like it or not, federalism is the only way to keep Ethiopia together, and the only ones crying about it are some Amhara's who long for the old system which benefitted them mostly, to the detriment of others. It just needs to be improved upon, as opposed to being completely dismantled.
Sadacha Macca,

Welcome to the field. Haven't seen your inputs for some time.

The PM is saying that there was the worst form of Centralized government in the country for the last 27 years...but presenting itself as Federalist. Menge was a totalitarian communist Junta who exterminated Amharas more than any other ethnic group in that country. He nationalized every hut they built in the country and reduced them to beggars. If you don't know ..Menge is Oromo too ethnically speaking...unless of course you call him Neftegna same way most Oromo elites like to refer to our current PM as well.

Hailesilassie was a feudal emperor who ruled the very backward country with how he understood kingship should be. Perspective and and time references are of paramount importance when we are discussing about governments. Now both systems have been gone long before I came to this planet. We are here and now trying to correct historical mistakes and chart a future that can accommodate our interests based on merits ....not based on to which tribe we belong to. Unless we are to have such a system, everything and anything that are done because of "might is right" will definitely have a short span of life and dangerously regressive. Now you may call that system Federalism or anything else isn't that important to me.

Thanks wondime.

I am not doubting his claims, rather, I am saying that the system of governance in itself, is not to blame for a corrupt government.
Is the system then, or now, perfect? Of course not. It is flawed, just like the previous systems were.
But, it's a system or way, to keep the country united, while at the same time, giving the various states the right to self rule.
Did the TPLF dominated EPRDF have a genuine form of federalism? No, of course not. It was tigrayan elites dominating everyone else, but let us also not discount or undervalue the role the amhara and oromo elites played in maintaining that system.
It would've been impossible for the tplf to rule for one year, forget about 20 plus years, without their support.

But we need a federalist type system to maintain Ethiopia, otherwise, it will be back to perpetual conflict and instability, with no chances of ever being stable enough to fight our collective enemy: poverty.
A strong central government just won't work for us, of course, we need a central govt, a necessary evil perhaps, but not one that is too strong, strong to the point that the oromo, somali, etc, do not get a say in their own affairs.
I was born in 1990, so all I know is the current system as well, but all one has to do is read books, and consult with their elderly family members to know that the previous governments didn't work, my parents for example lived through part of haile selassie's regime and most of the derg, and we have grandparents who lived through both. their input and perspectives are priceless.
even using the term ''tribe,'' is insulting, we're nations and nationalities, not ''tribes,'' a term the european elites typically use to demean and insult Africans.
like it or not, the addis abeban view on ethiopia is a minority view, one not even shared by their own amara counterparts in rural gondar, gojjam, etc, much less elsewhere such as oromia, the south, somali, afar, etc.

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