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Horus
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Which Way Ethiopian? Ethnic Balance of Power !

Post by Horus » 19 May 2022, 21:10

Just Substitute 'ethnic' for 'state'. Ditto, you got it! Going forward, our only solution is Individual Liberty + Ethnic Balance of Power !




Horus
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Re: Which Way Ethiopian? Ethnic Balance of Power !

Post by Horus » 19 May 2022, 22:15

Now you can see the thinking flaws of ethno-elites and the fallacy of ethnocracy. The Ethiopian state system consists of close to 90 ethnic groups each of which are potential players in the Ethiopian ethnic balance of power game. Actually, the behavior of these ethnic groups is explained by the well known game theory.

Consider what has happened over the last 3 years.

(1) The Tigray domination of the Ethiopian system was dismantled by Oromo, Amara & South alliance. The restoration of new post--Weyane balance actually required the war of 2021.

(2) As the domination of Tigray ethnic group was being dismantled, the Oromo ethnic group hastened its domination of the Ethiopian system. As we speak, Amara ethnic group is building an anti-Oromo alliance to stop the ever growing Oromo domination.

Notice that the more Amara-Eritrean alliance grows, Tigrays are beginning to soften their position vs. Oromos. There is of course a brewing shifts in the southern alliance with newly forming balance of power.

(3) So, as we speak, there are two distinct fronts of ethnic power games - anti-Tigray domination alliance as well as an emerging anti-Oromo domination alliance.

I repeat, so long as there is ethnic federalism and ethnic politics,the Ethiopian political system will never be stable and sustainable. Similarly, no single ethnic group no matter its size will be able to impose its hegemony for any considerable length of period.

Ethnic alliances will form and shift at the speed of hegemonic threat by any particular ethnic group or group of ethnic entities.

Those who wish to see a stable, working and sustainable political system in Ethiopia must agree on Individual Liberty as the rock bottom foundation of the political order and craft a more just balance of ethnic (group) power to go with the freedom of individual citizens of the Ethiopian nation.
Last edited by Horus on 20 May 2022, 00:11, edited 3 times in total.

Noble Amhara
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Re: Which Way Ethiopian? Ethnic Balance of Power !

Post by Noble Amhara » 19 May 2022, 22:47

Tikikel!

union
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Re: Which Way Ethiopian? Ethnic Balance of Power !

Post by union » 19 May 2022, 23:21

Yup!......

TGAA
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Re: Which Way Ethiopian? Ethnic Balance of Power !

Post by TGAA » 19 May 2022, 23:42

Well thought out!

TesfaNews
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Re: Which Way Ethiopian? Ethnic Balance of Power !

Post by TesfaNews » 19 May 2022, 23:53

๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡น

Right
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Re: Which Way Ethiopian? Ethnic Balance of Power !

Post by Right » 20 May 2022, 00:10

Absolutely. Democracy as well as a republic is based on individual freedom. Much of the world has recognized that and moved on that direction a long time ago. Change the constitution and base it on the charter of rights. The sick mind who is intoxicated with group identification can enjoy group fantasy away from politics with in individual right. There is nothing wrong identifying oneself with his village and village members as long as he stays away mixing it with politics and political power.
Ethiopia will not move forward unless it figures out that. The other 2 core issues that has to be addressed by the constitution is that #1. Divisions of power in the form of institutions. #2. Land policy incorporated within Regional or geographical federalism.
The land policy will resolve the current killil conflict which by the way is a real state conflict. For example a federal state of Ethiopia administer, manage and build its state using its resources. The same resource can be shared with the rest of the country through a federal tax system. And all Ethiopians can have access to the resources of any state if they wish to go there to work and live. This is just an example but I am sure there are a lot of bright minds that may propose a better idea.
Folks wake up please. Donโ€™t embarrass yourself in front of the world.

Right
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Re: Which Way Ethiopian? Ethnic Balance of Power !

Post by Right » 20 May 2022, 00:21

Please wake up. We are better than this. Let us get rid off group right leaders and organizations. TPLF, PP, EPLF, EPRP,OLF,ONLF etc will do everything they can for the survival of group right. They can only thrive through a group right advocacy.

Horus
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Re: Which Way Ethiopian? Ethnic Balance of Power !

Post by Horus » 20 May 2022, 03:26


DefendTheTruth
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Re: Which Way Ethiopian? Ethnic Balance of Power !

Post by DefendTheTruth » 20 May 2022, 04:38

Horus wrote: โ†‘
19 May 2022, 22:15
Now you can see the thinking flaws of ethno-elites and the fallacy of ethnocracy. The Ethiopian state system consists of close to 90 ethnic groups each of which are potential players in the Ethiopian ethnic balance of power game. Actually, the behavior of these ethnic groups is explained by the well known game theory.

Consider what has happened over the last 3 years.

(1) The Tigray domination of the Ethiopian system was dismantled by Oromo, Amara & South alliance. The restoration of new post--Weyane balance actually required the war of 2021.

(2) As the domination of Tigray ethnic group was being dismantled, the Oromo ethnic group hastened its domination of the Ethiopian system. As we speak, Amara ethnic group is building an anti-Oromo alliance to stop the ever growing Oromo domination.

Notice that the more Amara-Eritrean alliance grows, Tigrays are beginning to soften their position vs. Oromos. There is of course a brewing shifts in the southern alliance with newly forming balance of power.

(3) So, as we speak, there are two distinct fronts of ethnic power games - anti-Tigray domination alliance as well as an emerging anti-Oromo domination alliance.

I repeat, so long as there is ethnic federalism and ethnic politics,the Ethiopian political system will never be stable and sustainable. Similarly, no single ethnic group no matter its size will be able to impose its hegemony for any considerable length of period.

Ethnic alliances will form and shift at the speed of hegemonic threat by any particular ethnic group or group of ethnic entities.

Those who wish to see a stable, working and sustainable political system in Ethiopia must agree on Individual Liberty as the rock bottom foundation of the political order and craft a more just balance of ethnic (group) power to go with the freedom of individual citizens of the Ethiopian nation.
Horus,

forget this qorqoro leqami union aka. right aka ecuador wezeterfe.

Here you are on the right track, in demanding a balance of power in our country. That is the way forward, in my view too.

There will be always some who are seeking to dominate based on ethnicity or other futures, like religion (we have seen recently the involvement of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church in politics, in the political maneuvering and Muslim-Christian clashes in Gonder and Addis itself, just as examples).

There will also be always those who are trying to encounter (counterbalance) those seeking to dominate.

So, the innovative way forward is trying to get where the equilibrium of the two competing powers lies, that will usher in the point of stability.

Tigrean domination of the Ethiopian state system has been taken out of the position. If Oromos may seek that same position, then their fate will not be any different. That much we can say already here.

The Amhara people, like any other in the country, have all the rights to resist any sort of domination from any other party in the country. What they should avoid in doing so is trying to come back to the old privileged way of their group by means of a short cut. That is also another fatal attempt, in my view.

But Ethiopia is not only for these 3 groups. There are other over 40 % of the general population, who could turn themselves into the real king-makers in the country. Here they are wanted as a caolation partners for the other major "partys" seeking to advance their own respective interest.

No one single ethnic group can dominate the Ethiopian political landscape by its own, there is no single ethnic group that constitute a simple majority in the country's ethnic arithmetic.

So, our guarantee to finally achieve a point of that much sought equilibrium is our consistent and relentless demanding of the democratic governance in the country.

Through that we will all be protected and respected, equally.

Right
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Posts: 2725
Joined: 09 Jan 2022, 13:05

Re: Which Way Ethiopian? Ethnic Balance of Power !

Post by Right » 20 May 2022, 08:05

DTT,
Do you think you can insult away the tragedy of what happened in Ethiopia under the leadership of the 7th king? Wrong.
Reality is catching up with you guys very fast. A quagmire is a quagmire and you will never get out of it unless you ask help in humility.

Yes, Horus the ally of PP and the admirer of the 7th king sometimes surprised us when he makes sense. We recognized he is capable of that. But it doesnโ€™t take too much for him to default back to Horror. Show him a little bit of money and mention his villageโ€™s name, that is it, he is back at square one.

The Amharas say: โ€œtime is a mirror as it will show you allโ€.
Time will tell.

TGAA
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Re: Which Way Ethiopian? Ethnic Balance of Power !

Post by TGAA » 20 May 2022, 08:57

DefendTheTruth wrote: โ†‘
20 May 2022, 04:38
Horus wrote: โ†‘
19 May 2022, 22:15
Now you can see the thinking flaws of ethno-elites and the fallacy of ethnocracy. The Ethiopian state system consists of close to 90 ethnic groups each of which are potential players in the Ethiopian ethnic balance of power game. Actually, the behavior of these ethnic groups is explained by the well known game theory.

Consider what has happened over the last 3 years.

(1) The Tigray domination of the Ethiopian system was dismantled by Oromo, Amara & South alliance. The restoration of new post--Weyane balance actually required the war of 2021.

(2) As the domination of Tigray ethnic group was being dismantled, the Oromo ethnic group hastened its domination of the Ethiopian system. As we speak, Amara ethnic group is building an anti-Oromo alliance to stop the ever growing Oromo domination.

Notice that the more Amara-Eritrean alliance grows, Tigrays are beginning to soften their position vs. Oromos. There is of course a brewing shifts in the southern alliance with newly forming balance of power.

(3) So, as we speak, there are two distinct fronts of ethnic power games - anti-Tigray domination alliance as well as an emerging anti-Oromo domination alliance.

I repeat, so long as there is ethnic federalism and ethnic politics,the Ethiopian political system will never be stable and sustainable. Similarly, no single ethnic group no matter its size will be able to impose its hegemony for any considerable length of period.

Ethnic alliances will form and shift at the speed of hegemonic threat by any particular ethnic group or group of ethnic entities.

Those who wish to see a stable, working and sustainable political system in Ethiopia must agree on Individual Liberty as the rock bottom foundation of the political order and craft a more just balance of ethnic (group) power to go with the freedom of individual citizens of the Ethiopian nation.
Horus,

forget this qorqoro leqami union aka. right aka ecuador wezeterfe.

Here you are on the right track, in demanding a balance of power in our country. That is the way forward, in my view too.

There will be always some who are seeking to dominate based on ethnicity or other futures, like religion (we have seen recently the involvement of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church in politics, in the political maneuvering and Muslim-Christian clashes in Gonder and Addis itself, just as examples).

There will also be always those who are trying to encounter (counterbalance) those seeking to dominate.

So, the innovative way forward is trying to get where the equilibrium of the two competing powers lies, that will usher in the point of stability.

Tigrean domination of the Ethiopian state system has been taken out of the position. If Oromos may seek that same position, then their fate will not be any different. That much we can say already here.

The Amhara people, like any other in the country, have all the rights to resist any sort of domination from any other party in the country. What they should avoid in doing so is trying to come back to the old privileged way of their group by means of a short cut. That is also another fatal attempt, in my view.

But Ethiopia is not only for these 3 groups. There are other over 40 % of the general population, who could turn themselves into the real king-makers in the country. Here they are wanted as a caolation partners for the other major "partys" seeking to advance their own respective interest.

No one single ethnic group can dominate the Ethiopian political landscape by its own, there is no single ethnic group that constitute a simple majority in the country's ethnic arithmetic.

So, our guarantee to finally achieve a point of that much sought equilibrium is our consistent and relentless demanding of the democratic governance in the country.

Through that we will all be protected and respected, equally.
Why are you avoiding Horus 's central argument that the Ethiopian politics and law should revolve around individual rights so that from these rights all the other's community rights can sprring up.. That is you know is the reason your are enjoying the liberty in the west which your country of birth could not provide. At the very least group rights should play a secondary role.

Right
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Re: Which Way Ethiopian? Ethnic Balance of Power !

Post by Right » 20 May 2022, 10:11

DTT,

Individual right: liberty, progress, democracy, innovation with freedom etc

VS

Group right: dictatorship, oppression, regressive, tribalism, corruption, poverty etc

It is crystal clear which one is better for Ethiopia.
Instead of debating that you are deflecting by insulting and name calling.

Horus
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Re: Which Way Ethiopian? Ethnic Balance of Power !

Post by Horus » 20 May 2022, 13:14

DefendTheTruth wrote: โ†‘
20 May 2022, 04:38
Horus wrote: โ†‘
19 May 2022, 22:15
Now you can see the thinking flaws of ethno-elites and the fallacy of ethnocracy. The Ethiopian state system consists of close to 90 ethnic groups each of which are potential players in the Ethiopian ethnic balance of power game. Actually, the behavior of these ethnic groups is explained by the well known game theory.

Consider what has happened over the last 3 years.

(1) The Tigray domination of the Ethiopian system was dismantled by Oromo, Amara & South alliance. The restoration of new post--Weyane balance actually required the war of 2021.

(2) As the domination of Tigray ethnic group was being dismantled, the Oromo ethnic group hastened its domination of the Ethiopian system. As we speak, Amara ethnic group is building an anti-Oromo alliance to stop the ever growing Oromo domination.

Notice that the more Amara-Eritrean alliance grows, Tigrays are beginning to soften their position vs. Oromos. There is of course a brewing shifts in the southern alliance with newly forming balance of power.

(3) So, as we speak, there are two distinct fronts of ethnic power games - anti-Tigray domination alliance as well as an emerging anti-Oromo domination alliance.

I repeat, so long as there is ethnic federalism and ethnic politics,the Ethiopian political system will never be stable and sustainable. Similarly, no single ethnic group no matter its size will be able to impose its hegemony for any considerable length of period.

Ethnic alliances will form and shift at the speed of hegemonic threat by any particular ethnic group or group of ethnic entities.

Those who wish to see a stable, working and sustainable political system in Ethiopia must agree on Individual Liberty as the rock bottom foundation of the political order and craft a more just balance of ethnic (group) power to go with the freedom of individual citizens of the Ethiopian nation.
Horus,

forget this qorqoro leqami union aka. right aka ecuador wezeterfe.

Here you are on the right track, in demanding a balance of power in our country. That is the way forward, in my view too.

There will be always some who are seeking to dominate based on ethnicity or other futures, like religion (we have seen recently the involvement of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church in politics, in the political maneuvering and Muslim-Christian clashes in Gonder and Addis itself, just as examples).

There will also be always those who are trying to encounter (counterbalance) those seeking to dominate.

So, the innovative way forward is trying to get where the equilibrium of the two competing powers lies, that will usher in the point of stability.

Tigrean domination of the Ethiopian state system has been taken out of the position. If Oromos may seek that same position, then their fate will not be any different. That much we can say already here.

The Amhara people, like any other in the country, have all the rights to resist any sort of domination from any other party in the country. What they should avoid in doing so is trying to come back to the old privileged way of their group by means of a short cut. That is also another fatal attempt, in my view.

But Ethiopia is not only for these 3 groups. There are other over 40 % of the general population, who could turn themselves into the real king-makers in the country. Here they are wanted as a caolation partners for the other major "partys" seeking to advance their own respective interest.

No one single ethnic group can dominate the Ethiopian political landscape by its own, there is no single ethnic group that constitute a simple majority in the country's ethnic arithmetic.

So, our guarantee to finally achieve a point of that much sought equilibrium is our consistent and relentless demanding of the democratic governance in the country.

Through that we will all be protected and respected, equally.
DTT,
แ‹ญแˆ… แˆแŠ• แŒแ‹œแˆ แ‹จแŠแ‰ แˆจแŠ“ แ‹ซแˆˆแŠ แŠ แ‰‹แˆ แŠแ‹ แข แŠจแŒแˆˆแˆฐแ‰ฅ แˆ™แˆ‰ แŠแŒปแŠแ‰ต แ‹แŒญ แ‹จแˆšแŠ–แˆญ แŠแŒปแˆ แˆ†แŠ แแ‰ตแˆƒแ‹Š แ‹จแˆฐแ‹ แˆแŒ… แˆฐแˆญแ‹“แ‰ต แˆŠแŠ–แˆญ แŠ แ‹ญแ‰ฝแˆแˆ แข แ‰€แŒฅแˆŽแˆ แŒแˆˆแˆฐแ‰ฆแ‰ฝ แŠจแŒ‹แ‰ฅแ‰ป แŒ€แˆแˆฎแฃ แ‰คแ‰ฐแˆฐแ‰ฅแฃ แŠญแˆ‹แŠ•แฃ แˆ›แˆ…แ‰ แˆญ แŠฅแ‹ซแˆ‰ แ‰กแ‹ตแŠ• แˆ˜แแŒ แˆซแ‰ธแ‹ แ‹จแ‰ฐแˆแŒฅแˆฎ แˆ•แŒ แŠแ‹ แข แˆตแˆˆแˆ†แŠแˆ แˆ›แŠ•แŠ›แ‹แˆ แแ‰ตแˆƒแ‹Š แˆฐแˆญแ‹“แ‰ต (just order) แ‹จแŠแ‹šแˆ…แŠ• แ‰กแ‹ตแŠ–แ‰ฝ แŒฅแ‰…แˆ แˆšแ‹›แŠ“แ‹Š แ‰ แˆ†แŠ แˆ•แŒ แˆ˜แ‰…แˆจแŒฝ แŠ แˆˆแ‰ แ‰ต แข แ‹ญแˆ… แŠฅแˆแŠแ‰ด แŠจแˆแˆˆแ‰ฐแŠ› แ‹ฐแˆจแŒƒ แŠฅแ‹ตแˆœแ‹ฌ แŒ€แˆแˆฎ แ‹ซแˆˆ แŠแ‹!

แ‹ญแˆแ‰…แˆต แŠ แŠ•แ‰ฐ แŠแˆ… แŠ แˆแŠ• แ‰ตแŠญแŠญแˆˆแŠ› แŠ แˆ˜แˆˆแŠซแŠจแ‰ต แˆ‹แ‹ญ แ‹จแ‰ฐแˆ˜แˆˆแˆตแŠญ! แ‰ แŒฃแˆ แŒฅแˆฉ แŠแ‹ แข แŠ แˆแŠ• แ‹ญแˆ…แŠ• แ‹จแ‰กแ‹ตแŠ–แ‰ฝแŠ“ (interest groups)แŠฅแŠ“ แŒŽแˆณแ‹Žแ‰ฝ แˆƒแ‹ญแˆ แˆšแ‹›แŠ• แ‰ แˆ•แŒˆ แˆ˜แŠ•แŒแˆตแ‰ต แ‹แˆตแŒฅ แŠฅแŠ•แ‹ดแ‰ต แŠญแˆซแแ‰ต แŠฅแŠ•แ‹ฐ แˆšแ‹ฐแˆจแŒ แŠแ‹ แ‰ตแˆแ‰ แ‹จแˆ…แˆณแ‰ค แˆแ‰ฐแŠ“ แข แ‹ญแˆ…แŠ• แˆ˜แˆฐแˆ แ‹˜แˆ‹แ‰‚ แˆšแ‹›แŠ“แ‹Š แˆžแ‹ดแˆ แ‹จแŒŽแˆณแ‹Žแ‰ฝ แˆ˜แ‹ฐแ‰ฃแˆˆแ‰… แŠฅแŠ“ แ‹จแˆแˆญแŒซ แŠญแˆแˆŽแ‰ฝ แˆ˜แ‰€แ‹จแŒฅ (แŠฅแŠ•แ‹ฐ แŒˆแŠ“ แˆ˜แˆฐแˆ˜แˆญ) แ‹ญแŒ แ‹ญแ‰ƒแˆ แข แ‹ญแˆ…แŠ• แˆ˜แˆฐแˆ แแ‰ตแˆƒแ‹Š แŠ แ‹ˆแ‰ƒแ‰€แˆญ แ‹จแˆ›แ‹ญแˆแˆแŒ‰ แŒŽแˆณแ‹Žแ‰ฝ แˆตแˆ‹แˆ‰ แ‹ญแˆ˜แˆตแˆˆแŠ›แˆ แŠ แ‰ขแ‹ญ แ‹จแˆˆแ‹แŒกแŠ• แ‰ฃแ‰กแˆญ แ‹ซแ‰†แˆแ‹!

แˆแˆ‰แŠ•แˆ แ‹จแˆแŠ“แ‹จแ‹ แ‹ญแˆ†แŠ“แˆ แข

DefendTheTruth
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Re: Which Way Ethiopian? Ethnic Balance of Power !

Post by DefendTheTruth » 20 May 2022, 16:14

Horus wrote: โ†‘
20 May 2022, 13:14
DTT,

แ‹ญแˆ… แˆแŠ• แŒแ‹œแˆ แ‹จแŠแ‰ แˆจแŠ“ แ‹ซแˆˆแŠ แŠ แ‰‹แˆ แŠแ‹ แข แŠจแŒแˆˆแˆฐแ‰ฅ แˆ™แˆ‰ แŠแŒปแŠแ‰ต แ‹แŒญ แ‹จแˆšแŠ–แˆญ แŠแŒปแˆ แˆ†แŠ แแ‰ตแˆƒแ‹Š แ‹จแˆฐแ‹ แˆแŒ… แˆฐแˆญแ‹“แ‰ต แˆŠแŠ–แˆญ แŠ แ‹ญแ‰ฝแˆแˆ แข แ‰€แŒฅแˆŽแˆ แŒแˆˆแˆฐแ‰ฆแ‰ฝ แŠจแŒ‹แ‰ฅแ‰ป แŒ€แˆแˆฎแฃ แ‰คแ‰ฐแˆฐแ‰ฅแฃ แŠญแˆ‹แŠ•แฃ แˆ›แˆ…แ‰ แˆญ แŠฅแ‹ซแˆ‰ แ‰กแ‹ตแŠ• แˆ˜แแŒ แˆซแ‰ธแ‹ แ‹จแ‰ฐแˆแŒฅแˆฎ แˆ•แŒ แŠแ‹ แข แˆตแˆˆแˆ†แŠแˆ แˆ›แŠ•แŠ›แ‹แˆ แแ‰ตแˆƒแ‹Š แˆฐแˆญแ‹“แ‰ต (just order) แ‹จแŠแ‹šแˆ…แŠ• แ‰กแ‹ตแŠ–แ‰ฝ แŒฅแ‰…แˆ แˆšแ‹›แŠ“แ‹Š แ‰ แˆ†แŠ แˆ•แŒ แˆ˜แ‰…แˆจแŒฝ แŠ แˆˆแ‰ แ‰ต แข แ‹ญแˆ… แŠฅแˆแŠแ‰ด แŠจแˆแˆˆแ‰ฐแŠ› แ‹ฐแˆจแŒƒ แŠฅแ‹ตแˆœแ‹ฌ แŒ€แˆแˆฎ แ‹ซแˆˆ แŠแ‹!

แ‹ญแˆแ‰…แˆต แŠ แŠ•แ‰ฐ แŠแˆ… แŠ แˆแŠ• แ‰ตแŠญแŠญแˆˆแŠ› แŠ แˆ˜แˆˆแŠซแŠจแ‰ต แˆ‹แ‹ญ แ‹จแ‰ฐแˆ˜แˆˆแˆตแŠญ! แ‰ แŒฃแˆ แŒฅแˆฉ แŠแ‹ แข แŠ แˆแŠ• แ‹ญแˆ…แŠ• แ‹จแ‰กแ‹ตแŠ–แ‰ฝแŠ“ (interest groups)แŠฅแŠ“ แŒŽแˆณแ‹Žแ‰ฝ แˆƒแ‹ญแˆ แˆšแ‹›แŠ• แ‰ แˆ•แŒˆ แˆ˜แŠ•แŒแˆตแ‰ต แ‹แˆตแŒฅ แŠฅแŠ•แ‹ดแ‰ต แŠญแˆซแแ‰ต แŠฅแŠ•แ‹ฐ แˆšแ‹ฐแˆจแŒ แŠแ‹ แ‰ตแˆแ‰ แ‹จแˆ…แˆณแ‰ค แˆแ‰ฐแŠ“ แข แ‹ญแˆ…แŠ• แˆ˜แˆฐแˆ แ‹˜แˆ‹แ‰‚ แˆšแ‹›แŠ“แ‹Š แˆžแ‹ดแˆ แ‹จแŒŽแˆณแ‹Žแ‰ฝ แˆ˜แ‹ฐแ‰ฃแˆˆแ‰… แŠฅแŠ“ แ‹จแˆแˆญแŒซ แŠญแˆแˆŽแ‰ฝ แˆ˜แ‰€แ‹จแŒฅ (แŠฅแŠ•แ‹ฐ แŒˆแŠ“ แˆ˜แˆฐแˆ˜แˆญ) แ‹ญแŒ แ‹ญแ‰ƒแˆ แข แ‹ญแˆ…แŠ• แˆ˜แˆฐแˆ แแ‰ตแˆƒแ‹Š แŠ แ‹ˆแ‰ƒแ‰€แˆญ แ‹จแˆ›แ‹ญแˆแˆแŒ‰ แŒŽแˆณแ‹Žแ‰ฝ แˆตแˆ‹แˆ‰ แ‹ญแˆ˜แˆตแˆˆแŠ›แˆ แŠ แ‰ขแ‹ญ แ‹จแˆˆแ‹แŒกแŠ• แ‰ฃแ‰กแˆญ แ‹ซแ‰†แˆแ‹!

แˆแˆ‰แŠ•แˆ แ‹จแˆแŠ“แ‹จแ‹ แ‹ญแˆ†แŠ“แˆ แข
แ‰ แŒฃแˆ แŒฅแˆฉแฃ แŠ แˆแŠ• แˆ˜แแ‰ดแ‹‰ แŒ แŠ•แŠซแˆซ แˆ•แŒˆ แˆ˜แŠ•แŒแˆตแ‰ตแŠ• แ‰ แˆ˜แ‰…แˆจแŒฝ แˆ‹แ‹ญ แˆ˜แˆ†แŠ‘แŠ• แˆ›แˆ˜แŠ•แˆ•แข แˆ•แŒˆ แˆ˜แŠ•แŒแˆตแ‰ต แŠจแˆŒแˆˆแŠ• แ‹จแˆแˆ‰แˆ แ‰ฐแŠแˆตแ‰ถ แˆ˜แˆแŠ•แŒซ แŠแ‹‰ แ‹จแˆแŠ•แˆ†แŠแ‹‰แข
แŠฅแˆตแŠซแŠ แˆแŠ• แˆตแ‰ตแŠจแˆซแŠจแˆจแŠ แˆ•แŒˆ แˆ˜แŠ•แŒแˆตแ‰ต แŒˆแ‹ฐแˆ แ‹ญแŒแ‰ฃ แ‹จแˆแˆ แŠ แ‰ฃแ‰ฃแˆ แŠแ‰ แˆญ แŠจแŠ แŠ•แ‰ฐ แŠฎแˆ˜แŠ•แ‰ถแ‰ฝ แ‹จแˆแˆจแ‹ณแ‹‰ แ‹จแŠแ‰ แˆจแ‹‰แข

แŠ แ‹ญแ‹ฐแˆˆแˆ?

DefendTheTruth
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Posts: 9761
Joined: 08 Mar 2014, 16:32

Re: Which Way Ethiopian? Ethnic Balance of Power !

Post by DefendTheTruth » 20 May 2022, 16:31

TGAA wrote: โ†‘
20 May 2022, 08:57

Why are you avoiding Horus 's central argument that the Ethiopian politics and law should revolve around individual rights so that from these rights all the other's community rights can sprring up.. That is you know is the reason your are enjoying the liberty in the west which your country of birth could not provide. At the very least group rights should play a secondary role.
My friend TGAA,

I thought we are asking for democratic rights, without any sort of delineation.

In a democracy anybody can demand anything and the system should be prepared to serve those demands, as far as they are put forward according to the rule of the game.

People can organize themselves and demand their collective rights, if we care about democracy. What they shouldn't demand is to disadvantage anybody in order to fulfil their own interests, I think.

If the Oromo people are organized and said we want to protect our collective rights, like culture and language, use of local resources to develop themselves and pay the required taxes to the state, I don't think there is a valid democratic means to curb that demand. The same is true for everybody else. Only people like the molala ras would like to claim otherwise.

If there is a discrimination, then that would be a different matter.

Against such flaws like discrimination against the "others" we can have a very strong constitution and other relevant legal mechanisms.

But the problem from your corner is that, like you know, you mention about the constitution only to make allegations against the others, when it comes to your own issues then you openly claim, we don't recognize the constitution.

That is the major pronblem, I think, not whether people were organized to pursue collective or individual rights.

That much you know well and it is you who is deflecting the real issue.

Isn't it?

TGAA
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Re: Which Way Ethiopian? Ethnic Balance of Power !

Post by TGAA » 20 May 2022, 17:04

I'm assuming the TPLF and OLF constitution is the one you are talking about, the one that made the slaughtering of Amharas a pass time. How much you want to sugarcoat the constitution you are enamored with is the most ant- Amhara in particular and anti-Ethiopian in general; a constitution ever crafted in any part of the world that targets and designates one nationality as an enemy of the people. You can be honest in your argument and would stop making a strawman argument to avoid answering the real democratic question. After you guarantee the individual right of every Ethiopian there is no way you going to be barred from protecting the culture of the economic interest of a particular gruop. They are not mutually exclusive concepts, but the existing ethnic politics and the constitution are designed to crush individual rights and suppress minority groups that are encircled by the majority. The kind of white majority in Antebellum South who overruled any laws to continue to dehumanize blacks, and enslave blacks in the name of the majority did what it wants. Individual right is the antidote for all the racist craze or ethnoextrimst that would like to impose their will on others.

Horus
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Joined: 19 Oct 2013, 19:34

Re: Which Way Ethiopian? Ethnic Balance of Power !

Post by Horus » 20 May 2022, 22:59

DTT
แˆˆแˆแŠ• แ‹จแˆซแˆตแŠญแŠ• แแˆญแˆƒแ‰ถแ‰ฝแŠ“ แŠ แˆˆแˆ›แ‹ˆแ‰†แ‰ฝ แŠฅแŠ” แˆ‹แ‹ญ แ‰ แˆ˜แ‹˜แแ‹แˆ แ‹จแˆ†แŠ แŠญแˆญแŠญแˆญ แˆ›แ‹ตแˆจแŒ แŠฅแŠ•แ‹ฐ แˆแ‰ตแˆžแŠญแˆญ แŠ แ‹ญแŒˆแ‰ฃแŠ แข แŠฅแŠ” แˆ•แŒˆ แˆ˜แŠ•แŒแˆตแ‰ต แ‰ƒแˆ‰แŠ• แŠจแˆ˜แ‹แŒˆแ‰  แ‰ƒแˆ‹แ‰ต แŠ แŠ•แ‰ฅแ‰ค แ‹จแˆแ‰€แˆ‹แˆแ‹ต แˆฐแ‹ แŠ แ‹ญแ‹ฐแˆˆแˆแˆแข แ‰ แŠ แŠซแ‹ณแˆšแŠญ แ‹ฒแˆฒแ•แˆŠแŠ• แŠจแŠแˆ†แ•แˆต แŒ€แˆแˆจแˆ… แฃ แŠจแŠแˆ›แŒแŠ“ แŠซแˆญแ‰ณ แŠฅแˆตแŠจ แˆŽแŠญแŠ“ แˆฉแˆถแฃ แŠจแŠแ‰ถแˆ›แˆต แ”แ‹ญแŠ• แŠฅแˆตแŠจ แŒ€แˆแˆญแˆฐแŠ• แ‰ฐแ‰€แŒฅแ‰…แ‰ผ แ‰ฐแˆแˆฌแ‹ แ‹ซแˆˆแแŠฉ แˆฐแ‹ แŠแŠ แข แˆ˜แ‹ฐแˆญแ‹ฐแˆญแ‹ซแ‹ฌ แ‹แˆตแŒฅ 2 แ‰ฎแˆแ‹ฉแˆ แŒแ‹ดแˆซแˆŠแˆตแ‰ต แ”แแˆญแˆต แˆ˜แ‹ตแ‰ฅแˆ แŠ แˆˆแŠแข แŠ แˆŒแŠญแˆฒ แ‹ฐ แ‰ถแŠญแ‰ชแˆแŠ• แŠจแ‹ณแˆญ แŠฅแˆตแŠจ แ‹ซแŠแ‰ แ‰ฅแŠฉ แˆฐแ‹ แŠแŠ แข แˆ•แŒˆ แˆ˜แŠ•แŒแˆตแ‰ต แŠจแˆแŠ• แŠฅแŠ•แ‹ฐ แˆšแˆ˜แŠแŒญแฃ แŠฅแŠ•แ‹ดแ‰ต แŠฅแŠ•แ‹ฐ แˆšแˆฐแˆซ แŒ แŠ•แ‰…แ‰„ แ‹จแˆแ‹แ‰… แˆฐแ‹ แŠแŠ แข แˆ˜แˆˆแˆต แŠฅแŠ แŠญแแˆŒ แ‹ˆแ‹ณแŒ†แŠ• (แŠ แ‹ตแˆญ แ‰ฃแ‹ญแ‹ฎแ‰ฝ แŠฅแŠ•แŒแˆŠแŠ› แˆตแˆˆแˆšแ‰ฝแˆ‰) แŒˆแ‹แ‰ถ แŠจแ‹šแˆ…แˆ แŠจแ‹šแ‹ซ แ‹จแ‰ฐแ‰ฃแ‰ แˆฉแ‰ต แˆ˜แŠ•แŒแˆตแ‰ณแ‰ต แ‹ˆแˆจแ‰€แ‰ถแ‰ฝ แŠฅแŠ•แ‹ฐ แ‰ฐแˆซ แ‰ฐแˆ›แˆช แ‹จแŒˆแˆˆแ‰ แŒกแ‰ต แ‰ฐแˆญแˆ แ”แแˆญ แŠแ‹ แŠ แŠ•แ‰ฐ แ‹จแˆแ‰ตแˆ™แŒˆแ‰ตแˆˆแ‰ต แ‹จแ‰ตแŒแˆฌ 'แˆ…แŒˆ แˆ˜แŠ•แŒแˆตแ‰ต' แ‹ˆแˆจแ‰€แ‰ต แข แ‹จแˆฐแ‹ แˆแŒ…แŠ• แŠฅแŒ…แŒ แˆ˜แˆฐแˆจแ‰ณแ‹Š แ‹จแˆ›แ‹ญแŠแŠซแฃ แ‹จแˆ›แ‹ญแŒˆแˆฐ แˆแ‰ฅแ‰ตแŠ“ แˆแ‹•แˆแŠ“ แ‹จแˆ›แ‹ซแ‹แ‰… แ‹จแŒŽแˆณ แ‹ฐแŠ•แ‰†แˆฎแ‰ฝแŠ“ แŠฅแŠแ‰ณแˆแˆซแ‰ต แˆ‹แ‹ญแŠ” แˆ˜แˆฐแˆ แŠฅแŠ•แŠณแŠ•แŠ• แ‹จแŒแˆชแˆตแ•แˆฉแ‹ฐแŠ•แˆต แแˆแˆตแแŠ“ แ‰€แˆญแ‰ถ แ‹จแˆจแ‰ฃ แˆแ‰ฅ แ‹ˆแˆˆแ‹ต แ‹ซแˆ‹แŠแ‰ แ‰ก แ‹จแŠฎแˆจแŒแ‰ต แ‹จแŒŽแˆณ แŒŽแˆจแˆแˆตแ‰ฝ แ‰…แ‹ แ‰ต แˆ•แŒˆ แˆ˜แŠ•แŒแˆตแ‰ต แ‹จแˆแ‰ตแˆ แˆฐแ‹ แŠจแˆ†แŠ•แŠญ แ‹จแˆซแˆตแŠญแŠ• แŠฅแ‹แ‰€แ‰ต แ‰ฝแˆŽแ‰ณ แ‰ณแˆตแˆˆแŠซแˆˆแˆ… แˆ›แˆˆแ‰ต แŠแ‹แข แ‹จแ‹ˆแ‹ซแŠ” แˆ…แŒˆ แˆ˜แŠ•แŒแˆตแ‰ต แŠฅแŠ” แŠฅแŠ•แ‹ฐ แŠ แŠ•แ‹ต แ‹จแ‰ฒแ’แŠคแ แˆ›แˆˆแˆแ‰ต แ•แˆฎแ“แŒ‹แŠ•แ‹ณ แ“แˆแแˆŒแ‰ต แŠแ‹ แ‹จแˆ›แ‹จแ‹ ! แ‹ฐแˆž แŠ แ‰ขแ‹ญ แ‹ซแŠ•แŠ• แ‹จแ‰ตแŒแˆฌ แ‰‚แŒฃ แ‹ˆแ‹ฒแ‹ซ แŠฅแˆตแŠซแˆ‹แ‹ฐแˆจแŒˆ แ‹ตแˆจแˆต แ‹จแˆ˜แˆˆแˆต แŒฝแ‹‹ แŠฅแŠ•แ‹ฐ แˆšแ‰€แˆแˆต แŠ แ‰ตแˆญแˆณ!

Take some time to devote to these founding papers of the American political community :idea:


DefendTheTruth
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Posts: 9761
Joined: 08 Mar 2014, 16:32

Re: Which Way Ethiopian? Ethnic Balance of Power !

Post by DefendTheTruth » 21 May 2022, 08:26

Horus and TGAA,

it seems that your both's line of argument is similar, if I didn't miss something.

You are trying to imply that the people shouldn't comply with the provisions of the Ethiopian constitution, because, according to your arguments, the constitution was not written by qualified people (lacking of the required level of knowledge according to Horus, people who hate the Amhara people according to TGAA).

Okay, let's say we have to throw the constitution and the paper on which it was written on, into the dust-bin and never care about it.

The next question for you is then on what basis are you going to demand your presumably violated rights?

How should we determine that your rights have been trespassed on?

Horus,
I didn't question the level of your education, for I have no insight to what you have been through. I don't think I am qualified to do that either.

I am just trying to get to the logic of your thinking: if your rights are violated, real or perceived, then you are loud in decrying lack of respect of law, in case of your own disregard to the rule of law, then your short answer is the constitution is worthless.

I am really perplexed about your such level of self-acclaimed knowledge about constitution and then also such level of confusion when it comes to the actual implementation of the same thing.

Horus
Senior Member+
Posts: 30657
Joined: 19 Oct 2013, 19:34

Re: Which Way Ethiopian? Ethnic Balance of Power !

Post by Horus » 21 May 2022, 10:20

DefendTheTruth wrote: โ†‘
21 May 2022, 08:26
Horus and TGAA,

it seems that your both's line of argument is similar, if I didn't miss something.

You are trying to imply that the people shouldn't comply with the provisions of the Ethiopian constitution, because, according to your arguments, the constitution was not written by qualified people (lacking of the required level of knowledge according to Horus, people who hate the Amhara people according to TGAA).

Okay, let's say we have to throw the constitution and the paper on which it was written on, into the dust-bin and never care about it.

The next question for you is then on what basis are you going to demand your presumably violated rights?

How should we determine that your rights have been trespassed on?

Horus,
I didn't question the level of your education, for I have no insight to what you have been through. I don't think I am qualified to do that either.

I am just trying to get to the logic of your thinking: if your rights are violated, real or perceived, then you are loud in decrying lack of respect of law, in case of your own disregard to the rule of law, then your short answer is the constitution is worthless.

I am really perplexed about your such level of self-acclaimed knowledge about constitution and then also such level of confusion when it comes to the actual implementation of the same thing.
DTT
แŠ แŠ•แ‰ฐ แˆฐแ‹แ‹ฌ แˆˆแˆแŠ•แ‹ตแŠ• แŠแ‹ แŠ แŠ•แ‹ต แŠแŒˆแˆญ แŠจแˆ˜แŒปแแˆ… แ‰ แŠแ‰ต แˆ‹แŠ•แ‹ต แ‹ฐแ‰‚แ‰ƒ แˆแŠ• แˆ›แˆˆแ‰ต แŠฅแŠ•แ‹ฐ แˆแˆˆแŠญ แ‹จแˆ›แ‰ณแˆตแ‰ แ‹! the right of the human individual did not exist because of the existence of a document called constitution. The right of man exist because of the existence a human being called a person. The constitution simply codified the God given inalienable rights of the human person.

แ‰ณแ‹ฒแ‹ซแˆต แŠ แŠ•แ‰ฐ แ‰ แˆแŠ• แˆ˜แˆฐแˆจแ‰ต แŠแ‹ แ‹จแŠ•แŒ‰แˆต แŠƒแ‹ญแˆˆแˆตแˆ‹แˆดแŠ“ แ‹จแŠฎ/แˆ แˆ˜แŠ•แŒแˆตแ‰ฑแŠ‘แŠ• แˆ•แŒˆ แˆ˜แŠ•แˆตแ‰ต แˆตแˆ…แ‰ฐแ‰ต แŠแ‹ แ‰ฅแˆˆแ‹ แ‰ แ‹ˆแ‹ซแŠ” แ‰ตแŒแˆฌแŠ“ แŠฆแŠแŒ แˆ…แŒˆแˆ˜แŠ•แŒแˆตแ‰ต แ‹จแ‰ฐแŠซแˆƒแ‹? :roll: :roll: :roll:

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