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sarcasm
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Statement by the Government of Tigray on the Joint Motion for a Resolution by the European Parliament

Post by sarcasm » 11 Oct 2021, 06:39




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kibramlak
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Re: Statement by the Government of Tigray on the Joint Motion for a Resolution by the European Parliament

Post by kibramlak » 11 Oct 2021, 06:53

I really wonder if the brain of those who wrote this is partially healthy. How can they write down something like self defense while invading neighboring regions? How did they forget what they did on ENDF and the consequent massacres starting from Mikadra (without mentioning the previous massacres in many parts of the country in collaboration with tribal oromos who have selfish and extremist view) ? How come they accuse the GoE in humanitarian aid blockage while themselves took the trucks assigned for this purpose to transport their fighters to kill people from neighboring regions ? አራቸውን አርተው ለመብላት የማይፀየፉ እርኩሶች ናቸው፣፣ Unfortunately, money buys literally anything and everyone. The billions of stolen money made the whites as tplf servants.

sarcasm
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Re: Statement by the Government of Tigray on the Joint Motion for a Resolution by the European Parliament

Post by sarcasm » 11 Oct 2021, 08:26

kibramlak wrote:
11 Oct 2021, 06:53
I really wonder if the brain of those who wrote this is partially healthy. How can they write down something like self defense while invading neighboring regions?
Liberating Western Tigray from invading forces of Amhara and Eritrean armies is the main driver of the current TDF incursions into Amhara region. Restoration of Status Quo Ante is a standard textbook conflict resolution condition which every international org, government or mediator supports. The other alternative is to allow the warring parties to keep territorial gains achieved in the conflict. Such arrangement would be a recipe for future wars, though.

The below comment in other threads really summarizes how a return to status quo ante would end the military conflict.

If the Amhara regional government withdraws from western Tigray, the war is effectively over. That would be so because all parties would automatically lose any reason to continue the war.

1 - Amhara government will have no reason to fight Tigray region if the land issue is referred to arbitration. They have no other conflict.

2 - PM Abiy will not have the main support base from Amhara. Again, what would be his reason to fight? To uphold democracy? He can't justify armed suppression as a way to uphold democracy. So, he will have no reason to fight.

3 - TDF can't justify waging a war to unseat a government. It would have to return to Tigray and engage in political dialog. The world would not support an armed undertaking to change the government.

4 - Isaias can't continue the war because Abiy and Amhara regional govts will no longer require his mercenary services and the UN will be against it any way.

So, all eyes are on Wolqait, Tsegedie and Kefta Humera. A region of roughly 400.000 people comprising 92% ethnic Tigrayans and 6% ethnic Amhara and 2% other. It was known as a region of Begemder province before the ethnic federalism but fell to Tigray region by the new federal constitution.

The land dispute is causing the Amhara to lend their support to the Unitarian PMAA and causes the Tigrayans to oppose PMAA's undermining of the federal arrangement.

If the land is resolved, the problem is resolved. All other issues can only be solved legally for there to be international support.

kibramlak
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Re: Statement by the Government of Tigray on the Joint Motion for a Resolution by the European Parliament

Post by kibramlak » 11 Oct 2021, 08:42

What would you say if let's say Afar controls Tigray and call it Western Afar. Then some years after, Tigreans fight and reclaim the ones incorporated as Western Afar. Would you accept for a negotiated settlement while Afar is still claiming Western Afar (aka Tigray) as part of Afar ? Thats by giving back Tigray to Afar and do negotiated settlement ?Means, accepting Tigray as part of Afar (I.e. Western Afar). Mind that Afar is also the author of everything, constitution and maps. Western Afar could be in the Afar delineated map. Would that be acceptable to you ?

sarcasm
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Re: Statement by the Government of Tigray on the Joint Motion for a Resolution by the European Parliament

Post by sarcasm » 12 Oct 2021, 17:04

kibramlak wrote:
11 Oct 2021, 08:42
What would you say if let's say Afar controls Tigray and call it Western Afar. Then some years after, Tigreans fight and reclaim the ones incorporated as Western Afar. Would you accept for a negotiated settlement while Afar is still claiming Western Afar (aka Tigray) as part of Afar ? Thats by giving back Tigray to Afar and do negotiated settlement ?Means, accepting Tigray as part of Afar (I.e. Western Afar). Mind that Afar is also the author of everything, constitution and maps. Western Afar could be in the Afar delineated map. Would that be acceptable to you ?
You seem to assume that Tigray Region has taken Western Tigray from Amhara Region. That is not factually correct. Tigray Region did not take any land from Amhara Region. Regions and their boundaries were setup in the early 1990s. Before then, there were no regions. Tigray or Amhara have not changed thier boundaries since they were setup.

Haile Selassie's Gonder, Shoa, Wello and Gojam are not equal to current Amhara Region.

See the below excerpt from another thread:

ከአማራ ክልል በትግራይ ክልል ላይ የሚነሳውን የርስትና(የመሬት ይገባኛል) የማነት ጥያቄ በተመለከተ፤ ጥያቄውን ለመመለስ የተሞከረበት መንገድ ስህተትና በጣም አደገኛ መሆኑን አሁን ያስከተለውን የጥፋት መዘዝ እያየነው እንገኛለን፡፡

ክልሎች ህልውናቸውን ያገኙት በህገ መንግስቱ መሰረት ነው፡፡ ክልሎች የተዋቀሩት ደግሞ የህዝብ አሰፋፈር፣ ቋንቋ፣ ማንነት እና ፈቃድ በሚሉ ህገመንግስታዊ መስፈርቶች ላይ በመመስረት ነው፡፡ ስለሆነም ህገመንግስቱ ክልሎችን ከማወቀሩ በፊት በነበሩ ክ/ሀገሮች ውስጥ የነበሩ ህዝቦችን፤ ለምሳሌ ጎንደር፤ በውስጡ አማርኛ ተነጋሪዎች እና የሰፈሩበትን ቦታ፣ ትግርኛ ተናጋሪዎችና የሰፈሩበትን ቦታ፣ አገውኛ ተናጋሪዎችና የሰፈሩበትን ቦታ፣ ቅማንቶችና የሰፈሩበትን ቦታ ከላይ በተጠቀሱት መስፈርቶች መነሻነት ወደ አዲሶቹ ክልሎች እንዲካለሉ ሆነዋል፡፡ በሌላ አባባል ጎንደር (በቀደመው ጊዜ ቤጌምድርና ስሜን የሚባለውን) በክ/ሀገርነቱ ወቅት አማርኛ ተነጋሪ ህዝቦች ብቻ የሰፈሩበት አስተደደር አልነበረም፤ እንዲሁም “አማራ” የሚባል አስተዳደርም አልነበረም፡፡ ስለሆነም በጎንደር ክ/ሀገር ስር ከነበረ አስተደደር ወደ ትግራይ ክልል አስተዳደር የተዛወሩ ትግርኛ ተናጋሪዎች እና የሰፈሩበትን ቦታ፤ ቦታውን ብቻ መርጦ “ድሮ በጎንደር ክ/ሀገር ስር ስለነበረ የአማራው መሬት የአማራው ርስት ነው” ብሎ ጥያቄ ማንሳት ስህተት ነው፡፡

በዚህ በተሳሳተ አመክንዮ መሰረት ጥያቄው የሚቀጥል ከሆነ ጦርነት የማይለኮስበት ክልል አይኖርም፡፡ ለምሳሌ፡- አፋር የሚባል ክልል አይኖርም፡፡ ምክንያቱም ቦታው ከወሎና ከትግራይ ክ/ሀገሮች በተገኘ መሬት የተዋቀረ ስለሆነ፡፡ ቤንሻንጉልና ጉሙዝ የሚባል ክልል አይኖርም፡፡ ምክያቱም ከጎጃምና ወለጋ ክ/ሀገሮች በተገኘ መሬት የተዋቀረ ስለሆነ፡፡ ወዘተ…


ጥያቄውን ለመመለስ የተሞከረበት መንገድ፡-

ከአማራ ክልል የተነሳው የመሬት ወይንም የርስት ጥያቄ ስህተት እንደሆነ ከላይ ገልጫለሁ፡፡ ይሁን እንጂ የሚነሳ የማንነት ጥያቄ መኖር የለበትም ማለቴ ግን አይደለም፡፡ የማንነት ጥያቄ ማለት በአንድ በተወሰነ ቦታ፤ ለምሳሌ በወልቃይት፤ አብዛኛው ነዋሪ አማርኛ ተናጋሪ ሆኖ በትግራይ ክልል ውስጥ እንዲካተት ተደርጎ ከሆነ ጥያቄው ለማንነቴ ምላሽ በሚሰጠኝ ክልል ውስጥ ልተዳደር የሚል የመብት ጥያቄ ነው፡፡ ይህ ጥያቄ የሚቀርብበት እና እልባት የሚያገኝበት መንገድ ደግሞ በህገመንግስቱ አንቀጽ 48 “የአከላለል ለውጦች” በሚል በተቀመጠው ሰላማዊ አግባብ መሰረት ብቻ መሆን አለበት፡፡

አንቀጹ የሚለው በአጭር ሲገለጽ፡- ጥያቄው ሲነሳ ጉዳዩ በሚመለከታቸው ክልሎች በስምምነት ይፈጸማል፡፡ መስማማት ካልቻሉ የፈደሬሽን ምክር ቤት ጥያቄው በቀረበለት በሁለት አመት ጊዜ ውስጥ የመጨረሻ ውሳኔ ይሰጣል ይላል ፡፡

ከዚህ ከላይ ከተጠቀሰው ህገመንግስታዊ መንገድ ውጭ የአማራ ክልል አሁን በተያዘው የጦርነት መንገድ ለመፍታት መሞከሩ አደገኛ ስህተት ነው፡፡ አደገኛነቱ ደግሞ ለሌሎች ተመሳሳይ ጥያቄ ለሚኖራቸው ክልሎች “መፍትሄው ጉልበተኛ መሆን ነው!” የሚል የእርስ በርስ የጦርነት አዋጅ ስለሚሆን ነው፡፡

ህገመንግስቱ ለትግራይ እንዲበጅ ሆኖ የተቀረጸ ስለሆነ ዋጋ የለውም የሚባል ከሆነም፤ ስለዚህ መጀመሪያ ህገመንግስቱን በሰላማዊ መንገድ መቀየር ነው፡፡ አለበለዚያ የዚህ ሁሉ ዘመቻ ዳንኪራ ተልእኮው ህግም ድንበርም የማስከበር ሳይሆን የመተላለቅና ዘር የማጥፋት ይሆናል፡፡ ይሄም አያ ተቤው (አያ ተበጀ፡ ተስፋ ስንታየሁ በጻፈው “ጨዋታ-ጦቢያ በእየሩሳሌም” በሚል መጽሐፍ ላይ ያሉ ከጎንደር የፈለሱ ቤተ-እስራኤላዊ ገጸ ባህሪ ናቸው) እግዜርን ሲወቅሱት “አንተ ምናለብህ ቤትህን ሰው እማይደርስበት ቆጥ ላይ ሰቅለህ የተቆጣ በየት አድርጎ ያግኝህ!” እንዳሉት፤ አዳሜ ምን አለበት ግፋ በለው እሚለው ከወላፈኑ ርቆ በሌላው ደም ነው፡፡

1942-1974: 12 provinces or governates-general (taklai ghizat) by Imperial Ethiopian Government

Begemder, Gojjam, Wollo, Shewa (Shoa), Gamu-Gofa, Illubabor, Kaffa, Sidamo, Tigray, Welega, Hararghe, Arsi




1987 - early 1990s

The National Shengo established 30 regions, consisting of five autonomous regions, and twenty-five administrative regions.

The five autonomous regions were: Aseb, Dire Dawa, Eritrea, Ogaden, Tigray

The twenty-five administrative regions were:[7]

Addis Ababa, Arsi, Asosa, Bale, Borana, East Gojam, East Harerge, East Shewa
Gambela Ilubabor KefaMetekelNorth GonderNorth OmoNorth Shewa North Welo, Sidamo South Gonder, South Omo South Shewa South Wollo Welega West Gojam West Hararghe West Shewa


kibramlak
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Joined: 26 Sep 2013, 09:27

Re: Statement by the Government of Tigray on the Joint Motion for a Resolution by the European Parliament

Post by kibramlak » 13 Oct 2021, 04:26

1.the people who are forcefully annexed by tplf when it took power never accepted the forceful change of identity and the imposed administration
2. The pre tplf maps do not entitle Tigray to claim any parcel of land which has never been in Tigray
3. Wolkayt and Humera have always been part of Gondar, thus part of the Amhara region

Claiming things that never belong to you is an impossible mission, especially when tplf committed unheard crimes on the people of that area. Some [email protected] whites tried to parrot this narrative without understanding the facts of the matter. So, this can't be a cause. A cause is when you rightfully claim something that belongs to you. But this one is not yours. File is closed. Tplf remnants may push hard to mobilise the naive and well manipulated people of Tigray. But the potential disaster could also mean losing Tigray altogether. Have you ever thought of that possible outcome ? Because none, other than tplf, want keep bleeding for eternity

Deqi-Arawit
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Re: Statement by the Government of Tigray on the Joint Motion for a Resolution by the European Parliament

Post by Deqi-Arawit » 13 Oct 2021, 07:10

sarcasm wrote:
11 Oct 2021, 08:26
kibramlak wrote:
11 Oct 2021, 06:53
I really wonder if the brain of those who wrote this is partially healthy. How can they write down something like self defense while invading neighboring regions?
Liberating Western Tigray from invading forces of Amhara and Eritrean armies is the main driver of the current TDF incursions into Amhara region. Restoration of Status Quo Ante is a standard textbook conflict resolution condition which every international org, government or mediator supports. The other alternative is to allow the warring parties to keep territorial gains achieved in the conflict. Such arrangement would be a recipe for future wars, though.

The below comment in other threads really summarizes how a return to status quo ante would end the military conflict.

If the Amhara regional government withdraws from western Tigray, the war is effectively over. That would be so because all parties would automatically lose any reason to continue the war.

1 - Amhara government will have no reason to fight Tigray region if the land issue is referred to arbitration. They have no other conflict
.

2 - PM Abiy will not have the main support base from Amhara. Again, what would be his reason to fight? To uphold democracy? He can't justify armed suppression as a way to uphold democracy. So, he will have no reason to fight.

3 - TDF can't justify waging a war to unseat a government. It would have to return to Tigray and engage in political dialog. The world would not support an armed undertaking to change the government.

4 - Isaias can't continue the war because Abiy and Amhara regional govts will no longer require his mercenary services and the UN will be against it any way.

So, all eyes are on Wolqait, Tsegedie and Kefta Humera. A region of roughly 400.000 people comprising 92% ethnic Tigrayans and 6% ethnic Amhara and 2% other. It was known as a region of Begemder province before the ethnic federalism but fell to Tigray region by the new federal constitution.

The land dispute is causing the Amhara to lend their support to the Unitarian PMAA and causes the Tigrayans to oppose PMAA's undermining of the federal arrangement.

If the land is resolved, the problem is resolved. All other issues can only be solved legally for there to be international support.


Since when has the leeches became People of their Words? if the leeches couldn't respect a final and bindning border commissions verdict, how would they get alone with the Amhara and respect arbitration.

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