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Horus
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የአሜሪካ አቋም ማፈግፈና የኢትዮጵያ ልዕልና (ቶማስ ሆብስና አዲስ ሚዲያ)

Post by Horus » 05 Jun 2021, 14:27

ደጋግሜ ደጋግሜ ያሜርካ ፍቅረ ወያኔ ፖሊሲ ገደል እንደ ሚወስዳቸው አንስቼ ነበር ። አሜሪካ ከትራምፕ በኋላ ምን ያህል ያለም አለቃ እንደ ሆነች ለመገመት በየቦታው ትዕዛዝና ማስፈራራት እያደረገች ነው ። ያም መልሶ እየባረቀባቸው ከዚም ከዚያም ወግድ እየትባሉ ነው ።

በኢትዮጵያ ላይ ያነሱት ግፊት ወደ አፍሪካና ጥቁር አሜርካኖች ድረስ እየተስፋፋ ነው ። አሁን በያዙ እቀባ ከቀጠሉ ያነሱት ጠብ ያፍሪካ አንድነትና ያሜርካ ጥቁሮች 'Black Lives Matter' ጋር እንደ ሚያያዝ ደጋግሜ ብዬዋለሁ ።

ይህን ግሩም የመላኩ ይልማ ትንተና ተቋደሱ፣ በዚያውም ስለ ቶማስ ሆብስ ማህበራዊ ውልና ልዕልና ቲኦሪ ትንሽ እወቁ !!




Last edited by Horus on 05 Jun 2021, 15:03, edited 2 times in total.

Horus
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Re: የአሜሪካ አቋም ማፈግፈና የኢትዮጵያ ልዕልና (ቶማስ ሆብስና አዲስ ሚዲያ)

Post by Horus » 05 Jun 2021, 14:59

የከሸፈው ያሜርካ ፕላን በኤርትራ መስፍን ሃጎስን ፕሬዚዳንት ሊያረጉ ወሰኑ ፣ ባዲስ አበባስ የተሾመው ማን ነበር? ዳዊት ወይስ የማናውቀው ኦሮሞ? መራራ አትበሉኝ ብቻ !

Horus
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Re: የአሜሪካ አቋም ማፈግፈና የኢትዮጵያ ልዕልና (ቶማስ ሆብስና አዲስ ሚዲያ)

Post by Horus » 05 Jun 2021, 15:26

ቻይና ያባይ አዳራዳሪ?!!! ወይ ግብጽ! በፒፒ እዎች ላይ የቀረበው ትችት ትክክል ነው! የዋሽንግተኑ አምባሳደር እንግሊዝኛ እንኳን አያቅም ። እነ አቢይና ደመቀ ያን የከሸፈ ብሄር ብሄርሰብ ዝባዝኬያቸውን ተሸክመው ባለም ላይ ይቆማሉ ማለት ዘበት ነው ። ያሳዝናል !!

Last edited by Horus on 05 Jun 2021, 15:34, edited 1 time in total.



Educator
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Re: የአሜሪካ አቋም ማፈግፈና የኢትዮጵያ ልዕልና (ቶማስ ሆብስና አዲስ ሚዲያ)

Post by Educator » 05 Jun 2021, 16:15

Horus, you are a lost case. I suggest you give up your analysis you have no clue about politics.

DefendTheTruth
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Re: የአሜሪካ አቋም ማፈግፈና የኢትዮጵያ ልዕልና (ቶማስ ሆብስና አዲስ ሚዲያ)

Post by DefendTheTruth » 05 Jun 2021, 16:25

Horus wrote:
05 Jun 2021, 14:27


Horus,

It seems that you are absolutist, monarchist, superme power adherent, ባጭሩ ጨፍልቀህ ግዛ አይነት ማለት ነዉ። This idea is what Thomas Hobes stood for and stipulated.

Last time I was telling you about your tendency of my way or the highway kind.

I came across the following video and tried to put into perspectives the views of those early days scientists.

Here is another interesting video, that compares the absolutist vs. accomodatist views of human nature.



I don't remember a book where I read but still remember after something 20 years or so and there was a comparison between the German and French society in the book. The author tries to characterize the Germans as hierarchist, absolutist, a one man show of society, which he claims to be typical of the Germans starting from a family level all the way up to the government level. Germany is still known as a country of the rule of law, the law governs everything in that country without an exception. You don't see many times Germans protesting against their government and if they did, then they rarely turn violent, they just demand and go home.

The case of the French people is totally different: they are perhaps one of the most protesting society in Europe and if they did, they do crash everything. I remember just before few years a protest that was started by people of migration background that almost turned part of the City of Paris into a hell on the earth.

The author also describes the French society as more of equal, feeling of entitlement and egalitarian and without any sort of absolute power for any part of the society, starting from the family up until the top government structure.

In this second video you also see the idea Rousseau represented in diametrically contradiction to that of Thomas Hobbs. Of course it is not based on nationality here, John Locke also stems from the same society as Hobbs himself, but still had a different view.

I am not a social scientist but it would be interesting if such social charaters may have contributed to the violent episodes of our new history which resulted to the most devastating havoc on earth and dubbed the two world wars.

Both of these wars were more or less imposed on the French, while the Germans were the true (parts of) instigators during those days.


In the current Oromo society of Ethiopia, one of the major chuncks of the country's population, there was no active war that was instigated against anyone in the country or from outside the country, the time when we came to a near war condition was when TPLF's persecution of the Oromos reached the state of overflows, no more tolerable.


I remember reading an article about an American Ambassador who was commenting about the current day Ethiopian political organisations (liberation fronts) and he characteristizing the Oromos as egalitarian and everbody with a sense of equal entitlement, which is not so common with the people of the northern part of the country. Probably the many factions of the Oromo organisation might have got to do with such social tendency and behavior. I just assume.

Many of the wars and other kinds of violent history of our recent past shows that those episodes had their root in the northern part of the country (they even boasted about ባህላዊ ጫወታ፣ later on). General Berhanu Jula was talking about "a war that was imposed on us", in the recent war in Tigray and he said "it is critically important if you yourself didn't instigate the war but forced to defend yourself", in one of his public press briefings.

If you like to read more about the Hobbs theory being refuted, then I recommend you a best selling book "Human Kind: A Hopeful History" by Rutger Bregman, the author of UTOPIA FOR REALISTS.

Horus
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Re: የአሜሪካ አቋም ማፈግፈና የኢትዮጵያ ልዕልና (ቶማስ ሆብስና አዲስ ሚዲያ)

Post by Horus » 05 Jun 2021, 18:56

DDT
I posted a bone outline of Hobbes ideas simply because Melaku Yilma of Addis Media mentioned him. Since a lot Ethiopians don't even know who Thomas Hobbes is, I added the video to give a context.

DDT, I am a student of political science from one of the best universities- I have gone through all of them from Plato all the way to John Rawls' Theory of Justice. You have totally misunderstood Hobbes and what he means by Leviathan. Leviathan means a giant sea monster that devours everything. In fact he was warning society of the danger of authoritarianism, but he was the first and greatest political philosopher who clearly traced the origin of the state; why society needs a state, etc.

Yes, then there are folks like John Locke, Stuart Mill, J.J. Rousseau, Thomas Paine and the American founders. I personally like Rousseau, Paine and Locke. But you need to consider all of the elements of political philosophy and theory and their developments. The concept of social contact and sovereignty are two of the many parameters of politics such as will, free will, right, liberty, on & on...

Yes, in the political organization of society, there is a permanent tension between liberty and order, the free individual and the power of the state. And, that is why we have centralization and decentralization, the rule of law, competing branches government, civil liberties and state monopoly of force, etc.

The Germans have a saying, 'order is half of life' and they emphasize order over disorder. Absolute liberty, every man for himself is essentially a political disorder while absolute authority (the Leviathan, the monarchy) is serfdom - a form of slavery of the peasantry. All of these conflicting modes take a whole different nature under a representative government, rule of law, etc. of a modern political community.

As for pre-feudal tribal systems, you are comparing apples and oranges. Prior to the rise of feudalism in all societies we had clan or tribal traditional systems community organization where there was little socio economic development and division of labor. Those simple primitive societies are mere romantic notions. Even under those tribal systems, you had constant conflicts and wars for land, water, grass and animals (resources). That explains the whole history of the eight years cycle of Geda wars in Ethiopia.

Ordinary people are always good, egalitarian and humane. That is what you are referring to, instead what we are talking about the behaviors of the organized Geda generation group's mission of wars and expansions which history has documented and what we witness as we speak. If you want to study the notion of egalitarianism you have to back to era of communal societies where there were very few things to fight about among people.

DefendTheTruth
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Re: የአሜሪካ አቋም ማፈግፈና የኢትዮጵያ ልዕልና (ቶማስ ሆብስና አዲስ ሚዲያ)

Post by DefendTheTruth » 06 Jun 2021, 06:07

Horus wrote:
05 Jun 2021, 18:56
DDT
I posted a bone outline of Hobbes ideas simply because Melaku Yilma of Addis Media mentioned him. Since a lot Ethiopians don't even know who Thomas Hobbes is, I added the video to give a context.

DDT, I am a student of political science from one of the best universities- I have gone through all of them from Plato all the way to John Rawls' Theory of Justice. You have totally misunderstood Hobbes and what he means by Leviathan. Leviathan means a giant sea monster that devours everything. In fact he was warning society of the danger of authoritarianism, but he was the first and greatest political philosopher who clearly traced the origin of the state; why society needs a state, etc.

Yes, then there are folks like John Locke, Stuart Mill, J.J. Rousseau, Thomas Paine and the American founders. I personally like Rousseau, Paine and Locke. But you need to consider all of the elements of political philosophy and theory and their developments. The concept of social contact and sovereignty are two of the many parameters of politics such as will, free will, right, liberty, on & on...

Yes, in the political organization of society, there is a permanent tension between liberty and order, the free individual and the power of the state. And, that is why we have centralization and decentralization, the rule of law, competing branches government, civil liberties and state monopoly of force, etc.

The Germans have a saying, 'order is half of life' and they emphasize order over disorder. Absolute liberty, every man for himself is essentially a political disorder while absolute authority (the Leviathan, the monarchy) is serfdom - a form of slavery of the peasantry. All of these conflicting modes take a whole different nature under a representative government, rule of law, etc. of a modern political community.

As for pre-feudal tribal systems, you are comparing apples and oranges. Prior to the rise of feudalism in all societies we had clan or tribal traditional systems community organization where there was little socio economic development and division of labor. Those simple primitive societies are mere romantic notions. Even under those tribal systems, you had constant conflicts and wars for land, water, grass and animals (resources). That explains the whole history of the eight years cycle of Geda wars in Ethiopia.

Ordinary people are always good, egalitarian and humane. That is what you are referring to, instead what we are talking about the behaviors of the organized Geda generation group's mission of wars and expansions which history has documented and what we witness as we speak. If you want to study the notion of egalitarianism you have to back to era of communal societies where there were very few things to fight about among people.
Well, in my view the one empirical observation here is the following:

Egalitarianism dictates no one is above the other, under the creator, the all almighty, the rest are created equal and as such deserve to be treated equal.

Hierarchy on the other hand dictates, there are unequaled social strata, which dictates a part is less equal than the other and deserved to be treated differently.

The french mindset dictates that no one is less than the other, we can't be ruled by any other under the God, we can only be governed. If you don't agree on that, then we are ready to defy your command and crush you as a superior force.
የአልገዛም አቋም ማለት ነዉ፣ እንደምመስለኝ። አልገዛም ና አልከተልም ልዩነት አላቸዉ፣ በእኔ ግምት ።

Here it is about Rousseau /Locke.

The german mindset dictates the opposite, all are not equal, else everything will be a chaotic situation. The last word lies at a given instance and not everybody has got the last word.
ታዛዥና አዛዥ መኖር አለባቸዉ፣ አለበለዚያ ቀዉስ ይፈጣራል።

Here it is about Hobbes.

Both mindsets that we are discussing here are not related to some sort of pre-feudal systems rather based on the current observation of the respective concerned societies today.

Like I said before, I am not a social scientist and as such my observation and knowledge of the theories in the field is very much limited.

But those who know more should also explain the objectively existent features in the society to back their claims of knowledge.

In the case of Ethiopia: the Oromo people is known for its adoption of the defeated parties and make them equal in the society instead of making them a sort of a subordinate social strata. I don't think you disagree on this.

There is also another point that I would like to raise here, that came to my mind: the case of አርበኞች (the Ethiopian Patriots). I don't think that it was a geographically limited phenomenon during its heyday of Italian invasion, but anecdotal observations suggest that the phenomenon was more widespread in the southern part of the country, while the opposite phenomenon of co-option (ባንዳነት) was more widespread in the northern part of the country, if my observation might not fail me here.

The question here is not about dealing with the statistics of the two phenomena but why it did happen so?

DefendTheTruth
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Re: የአሜሪካ አቋም ማፈግፈና የኢትዮጵያ ልዕልና (ቶማስ ሆብስና አዲስ ሚዲያ)

Post by DefendTheTruth » 06 Jun 2021, 06:45

Horus,

one more point to add here, it could help to dispel any uncertainty, I think.

In the recent war (or also call it law enforcement operation) in Tigray, the Oromo people mobilized resources like anybody else in the country during the operation to wage the war of self-defense. Once the operation was concluded victoriously the same people also mobilized tons of grains of different kinds and delivered to the same people, which was once the bedrock of the enemy against whom the war/operation was conducted.

At the same time the Amhara people, another major chunk of the Ethiopian people, was calling for a total kneeling down of the "enemy" and we didn't see the tendency or sign of treating the losing party as somebody deserving an aid. You were part of the second group and criticized the action of the Oromo people's representatives, who organized the aid for Tigray in the aftermath of the operation. Didn't you?

Do you think that there could be an influence of the Gada-System's egalitarianism in such differences among the different sectors of the same Ethiopian people? Do you also think this was some kind of a pre-feudal system features of the respective societies?

Horus
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Re: የአሜሪካ አቋም ማፈግፈና የኢትዮጵያ ልዕልና (ቶማስ ሆብስና አዲስ ሚዲያ)

Post by Horus » 06 Jun 2021, 12:43

DDT,

This thread is a discussion on Ethiopia, not any other tribe. You mentioned Hobbes about whom you have no knowledge of and I gave you my points, end. Bye!

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Re: የአሜሪካ አቋም ማፈግፈና የኢትዮጵያ ልዕልና (ቶማስ ሆብስና አዲስ ሚዲያ)

Post by Noble Amhara » 06 Jun 2021, 12:47

Child of Satan

Can you show us where Oromia region helps displaced Amharas? Yup NEVER you killers need to stop lying your region or people have no morality at all no sense of humanity you guys were never ever egalitarian rather barbarian look what you guys did to gedeo people and konso people!!! Killed them displaced them and made them starve push them out of their own lands no aid or help for SNNPR as well and no help or aid for AFAR + Gamebllan so please stop bragging about feeding the worst people of the planet “Chigray” and not helping your humble neighbours Rather destroying SNNPR AFAR AMHARA with the help of Shimeles Abdisa and Aba Gada-ye blessing


DefendTheTruth wrote:
06 Jun 2021, 06:45
Horus,

one more point to add here, it could help to dispel any uncertainty, I think.

In the recent war (or also call it law enforcement operation) in Tigray, the Oromo people mobilized resources like anybody else in the country during the operation to wage the war of self-defense. Once the operation was concluded victoriously the same people also mobilized tons of grains of different kinds and delivered to the same people, which was once the bedrock of the enemy against whom the war/operation was conducted.

At the same time the Amhara people, another major chunk of the Ethiopian people, was calling for a total kneeling down of the "enemy" and we didn't see the tendency or sign of treating the losing party as somebody deserving an aid. You were part of the second group and criticized the action of the Oromo people's representatives, who organized the aid for Tigray in the aftermath of the operation. Didn't you?

Do you think that there could be an influence of the Gada-System's egalitarianism in such differences among the different sectors of the same Ethiopian people? Do you also think this was some kind of a pre-feudal system features of the respective societies?

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Re: የአሜሪካ አቋም ማፈግፈና የኢትዮጵያ ልዕልና (ቶማስ ሆብስና አዲስ ሚዲያ)

Post by Abere » 06 Jun 2021, 13:01

Noble Amhara,
DDT had better boasted about the number of ወሼላ the savage Aba-Geda /Aba violence/ harvested from other powerless Gala people and tribes of Gedio, Sidama, Wolaita, Kembatta, etc. These people are shameless to even try to talk about Aba Geda in this age -- a stone age nomadic and hunter gatherers rudimentary savagery stage thing. Aba geda is synonymous with an animal pride structure, it is not a viable human social institution. No body give a damn to something like a herd pride.
Noble Amhara wrote:
06 Jun 2021, 12:47
Child of Satan

Can you show us where Oromia region helps displaced Amharas? Yup NEVER you killers need to stop lying your region or people have no morality at all no sense of humanity you guys were never ever egalitarian rather barbarian look what you guys did to gedeo people and konso people!!! Killed them displaced them and made them starve push them out of their own lands no aid or help for SNNPR as well and no help or aid for AFAR + Gamebllan so please stop bragging about feeding the worst people of the planet “Chigray” and not helping your humble neighbours Rather destroying SNNPR AFAR AMHARA with the help of Shimeles Abdisa and Aba Gada-ye blessing


DefendTheTruth wrote:
06 Jun 2021, 06:45
Horus,

one more point to add here, it could help to dispel any uncertainty, I think.

In the recent war (or also call it law enforcement operation) in Tigray, the Oromo people mobilized resources like anybody else in the country during the operation to wage the war of self-defense. Once the operation was concluded victoriously the same people also mobilized tons of grains of different kinds and delivered to the same people, which was once the bedrock of the enemy against whom the war/operation was conducted.

At the same time the Amhara people, another major chunk of the Ethiopian people, was calling for a total kneeling down of the "enemy" and we didn't see the tendency or sign of treating the losing party as somebody deserving an aid. You were part of the second group and criticized the action of the Oromo people's representatives, who organized the aid for Tigray in the aftermath of the operation. Didn't you?

Do you think that there could be an influence of the Gada-System's egalitarianism in such differences among the different sectors of the same Ethiopian people? Do you also think this was some kind of a pre-feudal system features of the respective societies?

DefendTheTruth
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Re: የአሜሪካ አቋም ማፈግፈና የኢትዮጵያ ልዕልና (ቶማስ ሆብስና አዲስ ሚዲያ)

Post by DefendTheTruth » 06 Jun 2021, 14:49

Horus wrote:
06 Jun 2021, 12:43
DDT,

This thread is a discussion on Ethiopia, not any other tribe. You mentioned Hobbes about whom you have no knowledge of and I gave you my points, end. Bye!
ወይ ፈረሱ፣ የቅድመ ፊዉዳል ስርዐት ነዉ ስትል ቆይተህ አሁን ደግሞ የሌላ ጎሳ ጉዳይ አይደለም አልክ? ወይ አያልቅበት

እኔ እዉቀቱ የሌለኝ ቦታ የለኝም እላለሁ፣ አለማወቅን ማወቅ ለማወቅ ይረዳልና። ኣንተ ግ ን ህድና ተኮፈስ።

Horus
Senior Member+
Posts: 30652
Joined: 19 Oct 2013, 19:34

Re: የአሜሪካ አቋም ማፈግፈና የኢትዮጵያ ልዕልና (ቶማስ ሆብስና አዲስ ሚዲያ)

Post by Horus » 11 Jun 2021, 16:54

አሜሪካ ያፈገፍጋል ብዬ ነገር ! ይሀው አፈገፈገች!
በብርጫው 36 ሚልዮን ህዝብ ድምጽ ይሰጣል
ሰኔ 14 ቀን ከ673 የምርጫ ክልሎች ወስጥ 641 ምርጫ ያካሂዳሉ ፣ 90%
ከ49፣ 407 የምርጫ ታቢያዎች 44 900 ዎቹ ምርጫ ያካሂዳሉ
የቀሩት በጳጉሜ 1 ያደርጋሉ
በቃ ኡህን ደሞ አሜርካ አይሁን እያሸ ተቀብሎት አሁን ሌላ መፈክር ይዟል ድህረ ምርጫ ውይይት !!!
ውይይት ማን ጠላ?!!!

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