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ZEMEN
Member
Posts: 2482
Joined: 27 Jun 2011, 14:37

Re: US and Ethiopia launch a new $2.2 billion dollars Productive Safety Net Program (PSNP)

Post by ZEMEN » 29 Mar 2021, 14:09

temari wrote:
29 Mar 2021, 14:05


I was hoping the opposite of the news. They will never leave us alone and we are unable to escape from their grip. Africa needs strong governmnet and leaders. Only Isaias Afroqi; the man with the titanium testicles.

temari
Member
Posts: 3743
Joined: 28 Dec 2014, 21:18

Re: US and Ethiopia launch a new $2.2 billion dollars Productive Safety Net Program (PSNP)

Post by temari » 29 Mar 2021, 14:30

ZEMEN wrote:
29 Mar 2021, 14:09
I was hoping the opposite of the news. They will never leave us alone and we are unable to escape from their grip. Africa needs strong governmnet and leaders. Only Isaias Afroqi; the man with the titanium testicles.
I told you Ethiopia is very different from Eritrea in this regard. You can't compare the two and no matter who may be the leader of Ethiopia he/she can't afford to lose the west. Otherwise people will find it very hard to live and all hell breaks loose and the government is gone. Eritrea has a population of less than that of Addis Ababa, a different political culture and history and also a huge diaspora. Ethiopia with 110 million people is a whole lot of a different world. PM Abiy is not stupid to implement the Eritrean system in Ethiopia. He knows that is not gonna work. We are making progress but we still need the west. For example, the Ethiopian government managed to pay 70% the aid to Tigray for 4.2 M people but we are not yet there to reject western money. Not yet. We need at least 10 or may be 15 years to reach that state. Even then we should have good relations with the west but reject any aid.


ZEMEN
Member
Posts: 2482
Joined: 27 Jun 2011, 14:37

Re: US and Ethiopia launch a new $2.2 billion dollars Productive Safety Net Program (PSNP)

Post by ZEMEN » 29 Mar 2021, 15:45

temari wrote:
29 Mar 2021, 14:30
ZEMEN wrote:
29 Mar 2021, 14:09
I was hoping the opposite of the news. They will never leave us alone and we are unable to escape from their grip. Africa needs strong governmnet and leaders. Only Isaias Afroqi; the man with the titanium testicles.
I told you Ethiopia is very different from Eritrea in this regard. You can't compare the two and no matter who may be the leader of Ethiopia he/she can't afford to lose the west. Otherwise people will find it very hard to live and all hell breaks loose and the government is gone. Eritrea has a population of less than that of Addis Ababa, a different political culture and history and also a huge diaspora. Ethiopia with 110 million people is a whole lot of a different world. PM Abiy is not stupid to implement the Eritrean system in Ethiopia. He knows that is not gonna work. We are making progress but we still need the west. For example, the Ethiopian government managed to pay 70% the aid to Tigray for 4.2 M people but we are not yet there to reject western money. Not yet. We need at least 10 or may be 15 years to reach that state. Even then we should have good relations with the west but reject any aid.

Temari; you are the better once around here and at times you come-up with good and logical arguments; however, you are failed on this one miserably. Self-reliance is a virtue not a vice, to grow food only takes water, fartail land and people; Ethiopia is blessed with all of the above. What is missing is a strong leader and disciplined society. What is sad is, you might think you are getting free 2.2 B for free, think again and think what they are getting in return. If you think this free gift, then you are not as bright as i thought you are.

temari
Member
Posts: 3743
Joined: 28 Dec 2014, 21:18

Re: US and Ethiopia launch a new $2.2 billion dollars Productive Safety Net Program (PSNP)

Post by temari » 29 Mar 2021, 16:49

ZEMEN wrote:
29 Mar 2021, 15:45
temari wrote:
29 Mar 2021, 14:30
ZEMEN wrote:
29 Mar 2021, 14:09
I was hoping the opposite of the news. They will never leave us alone and we are unable to escape from their grip. Africa needs strong governmnet and leaders. Only Isaias Afroqi; the man with the titanium testicles.
I told you Ethiopia is very different from Eritrea in this regard. You can't compare the two and no matter who may be the leader of Ethiopia he/she can't afford to lose the west. Otherwise people will find it very hard to live and all hell breaks loose and the government is gone. Eritrea has a population of less than that of Addis Ababa, a different political culture and history and also a huge diaspora. Ethiopia with 110 million people is a whole lot of a different world. PM Abiy is not stupid to implement the Eritrean system in Ethiopia. He knows that is not gonna work. We are making progress but we still need the west. For example, the Ethiopian government managed to pay 70% the aid to Tigray for 4.2 M people but we are not yet there to reject western money. Not yet. We need at least 10 or may be 15 years to reach that state. Even then we should have good relations with the west but reject any aid.

Temari; you are the better once around here and at times you come-up with good and logical arguments; however, you are failed on this one miserably. Self-reliance is a virtue not a vice, to grow food only takes water, fartail land and people; Ethiopia is blessed with all of the above. What is missing is a strong leader and disciplined society. What is sad is, you might think you are getting free 2.2 B for free, think again and think what they are getting in return. If you think this free gift, then you are not as bright as i thought you are.
Zemen, I have nothing against self reliance and PM Abiy is doing everything to substitute what we import including food. That effort should be doubled and is in the right direction. I also agree with aid comes so many negative aspects. Having said that, I am also realistic, we need time to achieve that. If we reject everything from the west immediately, our economy will be eaten up by the 9 Mio or so who are on aid. Even western societies have social security systems for those who fail to provide for themselves. Ethiopia can't do that and if it tries to do so, huge sum of the government's budget would go to feeding the poor and destroy the economy. So we are not there yet. We can't afford to reject western aid now. That would be suicidal for any Ethiopia government.

You have to also remember that unlike the Eritrean government, the Ethiopian government can't convince the people to sacrifice for 10 or 20 years. That is not gonna happen. No one will follow the government on a sacrificial course instead everybody will try to overthrow it. We have different historical background and mentality. Ethiopians, especially the new generation, don't want to wait and sacrifice etc. They want it now. Considering all the parameters, there is zero chance Ethiopia can fully reject western aid for now unless we have a crazy adventures leader like Mengistu who is in a self destruction mission. I don't think PM Abiy is that crazy leader. He is way to smart not to see the pitfalls.

ZEMEN
Member
Posts: 2482
Joined: 27 Jun 2011, 14:37

Re: US and Ethiopia launch a new $2.2 billion dollars Productive Safety Net Program (PSNP)

Post by ZEMEN » 30 Mar 2021, 13:10

temari wrote:
29 Mar 2021, 16:49
ZEMEN wrote:
29 Mar 2021, 15:45
temari wrote:
29 Mar 2021, 14:30
ZEMEN wrote:
29 Mar 2021, 14:09
I was hoping the opposite of the news. They will never leave us alone and we are unable to escape from their grip. Africa needs strong governmnet and leaders. Only Isaias Afroqi; the man with the titanium testicles.
I told you Ethiopia is very different from Eritrea in this regard. You can't compare the two and no matter who may be the leader of Ethiopia he/she can't afford to lose the west. Otherwise people will find it very hard to live and all hell breaks loose and the government is gone. Eritrea has a population of less than that of Addis Ababa, a different political culture and history and also a huge diaspora. Ethiopia with 110 million people is a whole lot of a different world. PM Abiy is not stupid to implement the Eritrean system in Ethiopia. He knows that is not gonna work. We are making progress but we still need the west. For example, the Ethiopian government managed to pay 70% the aid to Tigray for 4.2 M people but we are not yet there to reject western money. Not yet. We need at least 10 or may be 15 years to reach that state. Even then we should have good relations with the west but reject any aid.

Temari; you are the better once around here and at times you come-up with good and logical arguments; however, you are failed on this one miserably. Self-reliance is a virtue not a vice, to grow food only takes water, fartail land and people; Ethiopia is blessed with all of the above. What is missing is a strong leader and disciplined society. What is sad is, you might think you are getting free 2.2 B for free, think again and think what they are getting in return. If you think this free gift, then you are not as bright as i thought you are.
Zemen, I have nothing against self reliance and PM Abiy is doing everything to substitute what we import including food. That effort should be doubled and is in the right direction. I also agree with aid comes so many negative aspects. Having said that, I am also realistic, we need time to achieve that. If we reject everything from the west immediately, our economy will be eaten up by the 9 Mio or so who are on aid. Even western societies have social security systems for those who fail to provide for themselves. Ethiopia can't do that and if it tries to do so, huge sum of the government's budget would go to feeding the poor and destroy the economy. So we are not there yet. We can't afford to reject western aid now. That would be suicidal for any Ethiopia government.

You have to also remember that unlike the Eritrean government, the Ethiopian government can't convince the people to sacrifice for 10 or 20 years. That is not gonna happen. No one will follow the government on a sacrificial course instead everybody will try to overthrow it. We have different historical background and mentality. Ethiopians, especially the new generation, don't want to wait and sacrifice etc. They want it now. Considering all the parameters, there is zero chance Ethiopia can fully reject western aid for now unless we have a crazy adventures leader like Mengistu who is in a self destruction mission. I don't think PM Abiy is that crazy leader. He is way to smart not to see the pitfalls.
Temari; so are you saying we should live on Aid for ever and ever? I am lost. The purpose of life is every generation to make it better than the previous, yet you are suggesting we should get stuck and go backward.

temari
Member
Posts: 3743
Joined: 28 Dec 2014, 21:18

Re: US and Ethiopia launch a new $2.2 billion dollars Productive Safety Net Program (PSNP)

Post by temari » 30 Mar 2021, 14:35

ZEMEN wrote:
30 Mar 2021, 13:10
temari wrote:
29 Mar 2021, 16:49
ZEMEN wrote:
29 Mar 2021, 15:45
temari wrote:
29 Mar 2021, 14:30
ZEMEN wrote:
29 Mar 2021, 14:09
I was hoping the opposite of the news. They will never leave us alone and we are unable to escape from their grip. Africa needs strong governmnet and leaders. Only Isaias Afroqi; the man with the titanium testicles.
I told you Ethiopia is very different from Eritrea in this regard. You can't compare the two and no matter who may be the leader of Ethiopia he/she can't afford to lose the west. Otherwise people will find it very hard to live and all hell breaks loose and the government is gone. Eritrea has a population of less than that of Addis Ababa, a different political culture and history and also a huge diaspora. Ethiopia with 110 million people is a whole lot of a different world. PM Abiy is not stupid to implement the Eritrean system in Ethiopia. He knows that is not gonna work. We are making progress but we still need the west. For example, the Ethiopian government managed to pay 70% the aid to Tigray for 4.2 M people but we are not yet there to reject western money. Not yet. We need at least 10 or may be 15 years to reach that state. Even then we should have good relations with the west but reject any aid.

Temari; you are the better once around here and at times you come-up with good and logical arguments; however, you are failed on this one miserably. Self-reliance is a virtue not a vice, to grow food only takes water, fartail land and people; Ethiopia is blessed with all of the above. What is missing is a strong leader and disciplined society. What is sad is, you might think you are getting free 2.2 B for free, think again and think what they are getting in return. If you think this free gift, then you are not as bright as i thought you are.
Zemen, I have nothing against self reliance and PM Abiy is doing everything to substitute what we import including food. That effort should be doubled and is in the right direction. I also agree with aid comes so many negative aspects. Having said that, I am also realistic, we need time to achieve that. If we reject everything from the west immediately, our economy will be eaten up by the 9 Mio or so who are on aid. Even western societies have social security systems for those who fail to provide for themselves. Ethiopia can't do that and if it tries to do so, huge sum of the government's budget would go to feeding the poor and destroy the economy. So we are not there yet. We can't afford to reject western aid now. That would be suicidal for any Ethiopia government.

You have to also remember that unlike the Eritrean government, the Ethiopian government can't convince the people to sacrifice for 10 or 20 years. That is not gonna happen. No one will follow the government on a sacrificial course instead everybody will try to overthrow it. We have different historical background and mentality. Ethiopians, especially the new generation, don't want to wait and sacrifice etc. They want it now. Considering all the parameters, there is zero chance Ethiopia can fully reject western aid for now unless we have a crazy adventures leader like Mengistu who is in a self destruction mission. I don't think PM Abiy is that crazy leader. He is way to smart not to see the pitfalls.
Temari; so are you saying we should live on Aid for ever and ever? I am lost. The purpose of life is every generation to make it better than the previous, yet you are suggesting we should get stuck and go backward.
Zemen, no I said we are not there yet and that we need at least 10 may be 15 years to say no to aid. Currently, it is not possible. Even after we got rid of aid, we still need the partnership with the west. Most of our export is going to Europe and the US. We will need more western businesses to invest in Ethiopia etc. So the partnership with the west is strategic and will last for a very long time even after we stopped getting aid. Even China can't afford to be hostile to or cut ties with the west.

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