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Horus
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ኢዜማ መሬት አንቀጥቅጥ የምርጫ ዘመቻ ጀመረ !! ንቁ ዜጋ! ምቹ ሃገር !

Post by Horus » 20 Feb 2021, 16:34


DefendTheTruth
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Re: ኢዜማ መሬት አንቀጥቅጥ የምርጫ ዘመቻ ጀመረ !! ንቁ ዜጋ! ምቹ ሃገር !

Post by DefendTheTruth » 20 Feb 2021, 17:39

"ምቹ ሃገር" means when people are also allowed, among others, to be served in the language they understand well and the people who are claiming to serve them are also ready to do so in that language those people understand.

EZEMA is a party of those in the towns, if any at all, in a country where around 85 % of the people are dwellers of the rural part of the country.

So, how can that be a "መሬት አንቀጥቅጥ" when we know that they are talking just to the minority?

Even if they may win in Addis, which I doubt, then their representation is just a tiny minority and far from effecting any substantial change in the country in any sort of representational democracy.

Political parties should learn how to study the need of the people and base their political programs on those needs, not on their own narrow needs of political actors.

Horus
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Re: ኢዜማ መሬት አንቀጥቅጥ የምርጫ ዘመቻ ጀመረ !! ንቁ ዜጋ! ምቹ ሃገር !

Post by Horus » 20 Feb 2021, 22:17

ዲዲቲ
ያስገርማል! አሁንም ትከራከረኛለህ? ዎያኔኮ ከምድር ገጽ ጠፍቷል! ኤርሚያ ኢዜማ መፍረስ ያለበት ፓርቲ ነው ብሎ ነበር። ይህን ልንገርህ! ከብልጽኛ ቀጥሎ ትልቁ የኢትዮጵያ ፖለቲካል ፓርቲ ኢዜማ ነው ። ትልቁ ሁለተኛ የፓርላማ ፓርቲ ኢዜማ ነው የሚሆነው። የከተማ ፓርቲ ምናምን ወሬ ነው ። የፖለቲካ ማዕከል የትም ቦታ ከተማ ነው ። የስልጣኔ ሁሉ ማዕከል ከተማ ነው!!!

TGAA
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Re: ኢዜማ መሬት አንቀጥቅጥ የምርጫ ዘመቻ ጀመረ !! ንቁ ዜጋ! ምቹ ሃገር !

Post by TGAA » 20 Feb 2021, 23:55

We used to hear Meles making the dichotomy you are making here. It Just a ploy to claim that Azema doesn't speak their language, which is not true. The Oromia Ezema is going to speak Oromiana, and Tigriy going to speak, so the issue of language is mote issue on arrival. That is why the killing in Beshoftu happened, fear of being defeated. One can not be a democrat and tribalist at the same time. It is just impossible to be. Even if Ezema wins in one city, Addis Ababa, and shows to the rest of the country how a democratic multinational metropolitan city can shine, it would have a ripple effect. For Ezema and others to win in Addis, the residence of the city just need to look around them; they know what is going on just 50 outside of Addis Ababa, the residences of Debrezeit/ Beshofut and Adama/Nazareth and Deredwa. They have been made a second-class citizen in their own country. Actually, the Orom Belsegna leaders are doing the campaign on the behalf of the opposition. The sick child of Ethiopia, Oromia, needs to do a lot of souls searching if it wants to lead Ethiopians of every hue. So far it is shooting its foot in every turn. The day Abiy's rhetoric and the action of his followers match then the future of Ethiopia is going to be bright. The tag of War among the Oromo politicians has to resolve itself first if they want to lead this diverse country of ours.

Lakeshore
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Re: ኢዜማ መሬት አንቀጥቅጥ የምርጫ ዘመቻ ጀመረ !! ንቁ ዜጋ! ምቹ ሃገር !

Post by Lakeshore » 21 Feb 2021, 00:40

For any party especially EZEMA got this much support in Addis Ababa by itself is proof that EZEMA is beyond tribalism and democratic because Addis Ababa is not Oromo, it is not Amhara, Tigre , Somali, and son it is for all Ethiopian. Any party who won in Addis will be most likely will win the nation's heart and mind. This is true because of the population Addis Ababa is more proactive and learned so that they can make a pragmatic and conscious decision or in other words have more educated and experienced citizens than any city in Ethiopia.

DefendTheTruth
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Re: ኢዜማ መሬት አንቀጥቅጥ የምርጫ ዘመቻ ጀመረ !! ንቁ ዜጋ! ምቹ ሃገር !

Post by DefendTheTruth » 21 Feb 2021, 04:29

TGAA wrote:
20 Feb 2021, 23:55
We used to hear Meles making the dichotomy you are making here. It Just a ploy to claim that Azema doesn't speak their language, which is not true. The Oromia Ezema is going to speak Oromiana, and Tigriy going to speak, so the issue of language is mote issue on arrival. That is why the killing in Beshoftu happened, fear of being defeated. One can not be a democrat and tribalist at the same time. It is just impossible to be. Even if Ezema wins in one city, Addis Ababa, and shows to the rest of the country how a democratic multinational metropolitan city can shine, it would have a ripple effect. For Ezema and others to win in Addis, the residence of the city just need to look around them; they know what is going on just 50 outside of Addis Ababa, the residences of Debrezeit/ Beshofut and Adama/Nazareth and Deredwa. They have been made a second-class citizen in their own country. Actually, the Orom Belsegna leaders are doing the campaign on the behalf of the opposition. The sick child of Ethiopia, Oromia, needs to do a lot of souls searching if it wants to lead Ethiopians of every hue. So far it is shooting its foot in every turn. The day Abiy's rhetoric and the action of his followers match then the future of Ethiopia is going to be bright. The tag of War among the Oromo politicians has to resolve itself first if they want to lead this diverse country of ours.
Ato TGAA,

you one more time?

May I ask you what you are talking about when you are talking about "Oromiana" and where is that entity to find in this world?

If you are talking about the official working language of the party, then could you also enlighten me where this was written in the political program and other bylaws of the party? Or, are you talking about something that is never written and still dare yourself to claim about " the issue of language is mote issue on arrival"?

May be I am the one who stated the position that "One can not be a democrat and tribalist at the same time" before you on this forum, but back then you were busy touting us about how the same tribalist in the name of ABN will going to shake the country from bottom up, so when did this change of mind happen to you?

About winning and not winning of a political election I said long time ago that people have got real interests and will base their choices based on those interests, not based on who would going to rule in some cities of the country or who is not ruling. And I still hold on to that my position.

Yes Bushoftu, Adama, Diredawa (Dire-Dhawa) and others belong to all citizens of the country, I agree on that. But I also question why the same is not true when it comes to Bahirdar, Gonder, Debere-Merekos, Mekele, and many others? If you think that is true for those cities as well, then please enlighten me again how many people from different part of the country have found their final home there, like those in the cities you mentioned in your post do in those cities you mentioned in Oromia region of the country.

If you fail to do so, then it only shows how the Oromo people are embracing others among them more than anybody else in the country, emprically proven here. The only thing they are demanding is that, if you are here with us, then you are welcome to be here, but please try to ease the social bond between us by also speaking the language we here speak. Is that much to ask for?

If you would like to say the relationship between those who settled themselves in those cities and the "indigenous" people should remain a relationship between settlers and indigenous people parse, then have you bigger fun that is still to come and I rest my case here.

TGAA
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Re: ኢዜማ መሬት አንቀጥቅጥ የምርጫ ዘመቻ ጀመረ !! ንቁ ዜጋ! ምቹ ሃገር !

Post by TGAA » 21 Feb 2021, 20:01

DTT, I am responding to your initial statement "ምቹ ሃገር" means when people are also allowed, among others, to be served in the language they understand well and the people who are claiming to serve them are also ready to do so in that language those people understand." Azema or any other party that goes anywhere in the country and recruits members who can't speak the electorate language, by default is not electable. Serving the community starts with speaking their language. I don't think EZEMA goes to Oromia or Somalia and speaks Tigrina or Amharic unless the people are multilingual and they don't mind one way or another. I don't know "Oromiana" and where is that entity to find in this world? " In Ethiopia predominately in Oromia region of Ethiopia. I may haven't captured the gist of your question. I don't think the use of official language has to be listed on the party's policy paper since any political party that wants to be elected in a country of 85 or more nationalities has to adapt to that reality of speaking the language of the electoral district. "One can not be a democrat and tribalist at the same time" I may have stumbled on this idea but I always believe that the Ethiopian nationality has to come first before the particular tribal loyalty. I believe that if you start from the former a solution could be found according to the merit of the political issue but if you start from the latter everybody tries to find from its vantage point and the common solution couldn't be found. My support to ABN you alluded to has to do with what is going on in the political situation in Ethiopia. When the governing body and every party plays tribal politics, the first order of things is protecting the wellbeing of the particular tribe that is made to be a target. I don't need to enumerate the factual examples that have been the case for the past 27 years and in their ugliest form in the past three. it comes to Bahirdar, Gonder, Debere-Merekos, Mekele. you are raising a reciprocity issue here? It like an Ethiopian citizen who became a US citizen can not elect or be elected in US because the no single US citizen votes in the Ethiopian election? In the Ethiopian case you want an equal mixture of citizens in all regions to give the citizen of the country equal right to be elected and to elect. I hear this kind of statement coming from Oromos extremists who claim that because Addis ABaba is in Midst of Oromia it should be the property of Oromia, because they say Mekle is for Tigry and Behardar is for Amharas. First, In Oromia there are other cities no less in size than any of the other cities. From Gemma , Nekemt, Adama , Shasimane (till it got burned down) many others. Two Addis Ababa started as the capital of Ethiopia and it will remain as such. I can't follow the logic of the argument, but there it is.

I agree with you that the Oromo and Amharic languages should be thought nationally, though the other nationalities should be given the right to choose one of the two since they have to learn their own.
There is no indigenous and settler dichotomy in Ethiopia, Ethiopian history is a flowed one, so one can't claim exclusive ownership of land or anything, historically speaking. The question should be how we integrated the Ethiopian society justly so that all can have equality of opportunity. The system that hider one while giving the other undue advantage should be corrected to satisfaction of all involved. The other thing we all should need to be aware of is that we all should not fight thinking that there is only one pie we all should fight till death. We can expand the pie that everybody can have a pie that going to satisfy him/ her. Instead of focusing on a particular group of people, in Ethiopia's case the unfortunate Amharas, let us focus on the problem and invite every stakeholder to come up with a solution that is palatable to all involved. I can't fail to appreciate your temperament and reasonableness in all your arguments.

DefendTheTruth
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Re: ኢዜማ መሬት አንቀጥቅጥ የምርጫ ዘመቻ ጀመረ !! ንቁ ዜጋ! ምቹ ሃገር !

Post by DefendTheTruth » 22 Feb 2021, 15:30

TGAA,

First thank you for understanding my position, which is trying to be reasonable and balanced to all sides, for I think without a fair reasonability we can't push much ahead in achieving a better future for ourselves and for the generation that will come behind us.

In my attempt to be reasonable I try to disagree if the unreasonable is from my side or the other side in equal terms, I care less if that is from my "tribe" or the "tribe" of my opponents in the ethnically divided country like ours. We need to overcome this division.

If ethnicity is not good when it comes from Oromo, Tigre, Somali or others, then it is also not good when it comes from Amhara, in my school of thought at least. So, if it is not good, then how can you ever beat a bad with another bad, you can ONLY beat what is bad with something good.

Ethnicity is bad, so we need to overcome ethnicity by not creating one more of it but by removing it and overcome it, isn't it?

Those who created what is bad perhaps conceived precisely for this reason to create one more bad in the mix and win over us, and people shouldn't allow themselves to be a tool for them and get played around.


May be you wanted to disparage the Oromo people by calling their language ""Oromiana", which I have never heard before, but you forgot the simple fact that you can't disparage the Oromo people without disparaging the Ethiopian people, simply because the Oromo people is the major chunk of what makes the Ethiopians.

With regard to EZEMA, you don't have to tell me that they are going to use the other languages when the move to those kilils, we have already the indication of what they are going to use: did they ever issue their long list of statements and press declarations in other languages other than Amharic (and perhaps English) so far? Isn't that communication with the electorate? So, why should we wait until they overtake the helm of power to start to communicate with us in the language we understand well? We see them and live them already.

I heard somewhere there were also a call to the people of Addis Ababa telling them they deserved to be lead by enlightened leaders (የሰለጠነ መሪ), no matter how redicules this may sound. These are the people who are talking in the name of Ethiopia, they are in fact a disgrace to Ethiopia, I have to say.

Afan Oromo is already a de facto official language in the country, just not yet legal. The Oromo people are simply too big to try to circumvent them and wish to succeed while talking in the name of the people of Ethiopia. Realising this simple fact helps the subject first and foremost.

Holding back the Oromo people just relegated us to where we are today, pushing them forward will also have a big potential to pull us out of the quagmire we are dogged in for so long time.

But there people who are still dreaming the old days, unfortunate for them.

DefendTheTruth
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Re: ኢዜማ መሬት አንቀጥቅጥ የምርጫ ዘመቻ ጀመረ !! ንቁ ዜጋ! ምቹ ሃገር !

Post by DefendTheTruth » 22 Feb 2021, 16:56

While we were fearing the arrival of Afan Oromo on the scene, we are now welcoming the arrival of Afan Sidama to the Mosaic.

ልሙጥ ኢትዮጵያ አልፎዋል። ቀለማዊቷን ኢትዮጵያን ተቀበሏት ።


TGAA
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Re: ኢዜማ መሬት አንቀጥቅጥ የምርጫ ዘመቻ ጀመረ !! ንቁ ዜጋ! ምቹ ሃገር !

Post by TGAA » 22 Feb 2021, 20:58

DefendTheTruth wrote:
22 Feb 2021, 15:30
TGAA,

First thank you for understanding my position, which is trying to be reasonable and balanced to all sides, for I think without a fair reasonability we can't push much ahead in achieving a better future for ourselves and for the generation that will come behind us.

In my attempt to be reasonable I try to disagree if the unreasonable is from my side or the other side in equal terms, I care less if that is from my "tribe" or the "tribe" of my opponents in the ethnically divided country like ours. We need to overcome this division.



Ethnicity is bad, so we need to overcome ethnicity by not creating one more of it but by removing it and overcome it, isn't it?

Those who created what is bad perhaps conceived precisely for this reason to create one more bad in the mix and win over us, and people shouldn't allow themselves to be a tool for them and get played around.


May be you wanted to disparage the Oromo people by calling their language ""Oromiana", which I have never heard before, but you forgot the simple fact that you can't disparage the Oromo people without disparaging the Ethiopian people, simply because the Oromo people is the major chunk of what makes the Ethiopians.

With regard to EZEMA, you don't have to tell me that they are going to use the other languages when the move to those kilils, we have already the indication of what they are going to use: did they ever issue their long list of statements and press declarations in other languages other than Amharic (and perhaps English) so far? Isn't that communication with the electorate? So, why should we wait until they overtake the helm of power to start to communicate with us in the language we understand well? We see them and live them already.

I heard somewhere there were also a call to the people of Addis Ababa telling them they deserved to be lead by enlightened leaders (የሰለጠነ መሪ), no matter how redicules this may sound. These are the people who are talking in the name of Ethiopia, they are in fact a disgrace to Ethiopia, I have to say.

Afan Oromo is already a de facto official language in the country, just not yet legal. The Oromo people are simply too big to try to circumvent them and wish to succeed while talking in the name of the people of Ethiopia. Realising this simple fact helps the subject first and foremost.

Holding back the Oromo people just relegated us to where we are today, pushing them forward will also have a big potential to pull us out of the quagmire we are dogged in for so long time.

But there people who are still dreaming the old days, unfortunate for them.
DDT Just for starters, I said Oromina as you would say Amarina or Tigrina there was nothing derogatory about that. I have nothing of that sort in my bone. They have given a press statement in Addis Ababa , thus they spoke Amharic. I don't think Ezema would speak in Amharic if it makes a press statement in Nekemte or Gimma . The EZEMA in Welega will be a wellegan residence so naturally, they will speak Oromia. It will be the same everywhere. Local represents Locals and when it comes to the national level the representatives of EZEMA from everywhere will elect someone to represent them on a national level. I was taken aback that you are offended by the statement " Addis Ababian or Ethiopian for that matter " need to be led by an "enlightened leader. I consider Abiy to be an "enlightened leader" though the rank and files of his organization leave much to be desired.
The transition from de facto official language to official language could only happen when Oromia accepts Amharic as official langue as well. And what to chose for other Ethiopian would be left to them to decide. No Oromo will be in par with all others- no more or less. But the tone needs to be set in unity. This needs to be accepted and implemented by the leaders of all regions, making sure that we all have one country but different regions. I never heard anyone who is vouching for the old days to come back, not a single group. It is just a straw man argument. What everybody is demanding is to be an equal citizen with all that entails.
"If ethnicity is not good when it comes from Oromo, Tigre, Somali or others, then it is also not good when it comes from Amhara, in my school of thought at least. So, if it is not good, then how can you ever beat a bad with another bad, you can ONLY beat what is bad with something good."
It is not only your school of thought its most of Ethiopians as well, who what to live and work in peaceful and democratic Ethiopia. But when one ethnic group is being targeted by others, and the federal government fails to protect this group, again and again, Amharas in particular, then it has to take upon itself to protect itself. We need to stand together to protect each other in every part of the country and respect the human right of all Ethiopians then what you say makes a lot of sense. Every region has to be responsible to protect the human right of its residents from wherever the residence come from. I have to say a few words about this catchy slogan "
ልሙጥ ኢትዮጵያ አልፎዋል። ቀለማዊቷን ኢትዮጵያን ተቀበሏት ። ኢትዮጵያ ሁልግዜም ቀላማዊ ናት፡በታሪካ ቀላማዊት ያልሆነችበት ግዜ የለም፡ ኢትዩጵያ መሆን ካለባት ዲሞክራቲክ፡ ፍትህ (አስመሳይ ሳይሆን ) እውነተኛ ፍትህ ፡የግለሰቦች መበት የተከበረበት ያ እስከሆነ ድረስ የግሩፕ መበት ዋስትና ስላለው፡ በህብረተሰቦች ማህከል ጥላቻ የማይነዛባት፡በውይይትና በድርድር በፍህታዊነት ለችግሮች መፍትሄ የሚገኝባት _ ከዚያ ቀለሟ መለያያ ሳይሆን ውበት ይሆናል፡: ብዙ ግዜ የካድሬ መፈክሮችን ከሩቅ ስለማውቃቸው ይህ ሰውዬ ስለምን እንደሚያወራ ግልጽ ነው፡ አህዳዊ ፤ ልሙጥ ፤ ኦርቶዶክስ ፤ ነፍጠኛ we know what these words connotate.

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