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Somaliman
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TGAA
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Re: Turkey is training 1000 pilots for Somalia!
We don't have a clue camels could fly 1000 of them.
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Somaliman
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Somaliman
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Re: Turkey is training 1000 pilots for Somalia!
Shut the fuc.k up you fa.g.got Agame.
You know very well that Somalia would have occupied the whole of Ethiopia had the Russians and the 15000 Cubans not intervened to rescue you dirty asses! You're lucky, your little fu.cker, by now you would have been herding my camels and would even be happy to be fed by their urine!
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Somaliman
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Somaliman
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TGAA
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Re: Turkey is training 1000 pilots for Somalia!
Is this your 
goat 
milk f...a..r..t talking? Let me go back ¹to 1000 fighter pilots supposedly being trained by Turks; do you know for how long each pilot has to wait to fly the non-existent fighter jet of yours?you have 360 days how many fighter jet and divid that 1000 .if you fly with your 
and that could be much shorter time to wait. I'm just saying.
goat 
milk f...a..r..t talking? Let me go back ¹to 1000 fighter pilots supposedly being trained by Turks; do you know for how long each pilot has to wait to fly the non-existent fighter jet of yours?you have 360 days how many fighter jet and divid that 1000 .if you fly with your 
and that could be much shorter time to wait. I'm just saying.
Last edited by TGAA on 04 Jan 2021, 11:52, edited 1 time in total.
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Mammo
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tarik
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Re: Turkey is training 1000 pilots for Somalia!
Relationship between turkey and somalia goes way back during z ottoman aka osman & Ahmed Grangn aka Ahmad ibn Ibrahim al-Ghazi era, so nothing new here.
=======================================================================================================
Ahmad ibn Ibrahim al-Ghazi (Somali: Axmad Ibraahim al-Gaasi, Harari: አህመድ ኢብራሂም አል-ጋዚ, Arabic: أحمد بن إبراهيم الغازي ;[2] c. 1506 – 21 February 1543)[3] was a Somali Imam and General of the Adal Sultanate who fought against the Abyssinian empire.[3] With the help of an army overwhelmingly manned by ethnic Somalis,[4][5][6] supplemented with the Afars, Hararis and a small number of Ottoman Arabs and Turks.[7] Imam Ahmad (nicknamed Gurey in Somali, "Gura" in Afar and Gragn in Amharic (ግራኝ Graññ), all meaning "the left-handed"), embarked on a conquest which brought three-quarters of Abyssinia (modern day Ethiopia) under the power of the Muslim Sultanate of Adal during the Ethiopian-Adal War. [8]
Imam Ahmad is regarded by most scholars as an ethnic Somali[9] [10] [11] [12] [13] [14] [15] [16] [17] with Ahmad sometimes regarded as being a Harari.[18][19] while others regard him as Afar and Balaw.[20][21][22] Imam Ahmed's birth place is also disputed into two places with some saying he was born in Zeila and while some say he was born in Hubat[23][24] Many Somali clans played a strong role in Gurey's conquest of Abyssinia, however, it is said that these clans went to war not so much as Somalis but as Muslims.[25][26]
In the Futuh al-Habasa of Sihab ad-Din records that when the Sultan Umar Din of Harar and the Imam quarrelled over the distribution of the alms tax at some point between the Battle of Shimbra Kure and the Battle of Amba Sel, it led to Imam Ahmad leaving Harar to retire to live amongst Somalis for some time and regularly mediated disputes between clans. [27]
I. M. Lewis discusses the existence of another leader named Ahmad Gurey, and suggests that the two leaders have been conflated into one historical figure:
The text refers to two Ahmad's with the nickname 'Left-handed'. One is regularly presented as 'Ahmad Guray, the Somali' (...) identified as Ahmad Gurey Xuseyn, chief of the Habar Magaadle. Another reference, however, appears to link the Habar Magadle with the Eidagal. The other Ahmad is simply referred to as 'Imam Ahmad' or simply the 'Imam'.This Ahmad is not qualified by the adjective Somali (...) The two Ahmad's have been conflated into one figure, the heroic Ahmed Guray[28]
Historian Whiteway, R. S. (Richard Stephen) based on the accounts of the Portuguese expeditions to Abyssinia had this much to say about Imam Ahmads background:
Of the early history of the Imam Ahmad but little is known. He was the son of one Ibrahim el Ghazi, and both he and his father were common soldiers in the troop of Garad Aboun. Nothing even is said as to his nationality. He was certainly not an Arab : probably he was a Somali, for we find him closely connected with many who were Somalis.[29]
Early years
Ruins of the Sultanate of Adal in Zeila, Somalia.
Imam Ahmad was born in 1506 at Zeila, Adal Sultanate.[24] Due to the unislamic rule during the reign of Sultan Abu Bakr ibn Muhammad, Ahmad would leave Harar for Zeila.[30] He married Bati del Wambara, the daughter of Mahfuz, the Governor of Zeila.[31] In 1531, Bati would give birth to their first child named Muhammad.[1]
When Mahfuz was killed returning from a campaign against the Abyssinian emperor Dawit II in 1517,[32] the Adal sultanate lapsed into anarchy for several years, until Imam Ahmad killed the last of the contenders for power and took control of Harar.[33]
Ethiopian historians such as Azazh T'ino and Bahrey have written that during the period of his rise to power, Ahmad ibn Ibrahim al-Ghazi had converted many Oromo pastoral people to Islam.[34]
In retaliation for an attack on Adal the previous year by the Abyssinian general Degalhan, Imam Ahmad invaded Abyssinia in 1529, supplementing his force with considerable numbers of muskets purchased from the Ottomans, which would panic the Abyssinian troops. Imam Ahmad maintained the discipline of most of his men, defeating Emperor Dawit II at Shimbra Kure that March.[35]
Invasion of Abyssinia
Main article: Ethiopian-Adal War
The chronicle of Imam Ahmad's invasion of Abyssinia is depicted in various Somali, Abyssinian and other foreign sources. Imam Ahmad campaigned in Abyssinia in 1531, breaking Emperor Dawit II ability to resist in the Battle of Amba Sel on October 28. The Muslim army of Imam Ahmad then marched northward to loot the island monastery of Lake Hayq and the stone churches of Lalibela. When the Imam entered the province of Tigray, he defeated an Abyssinian army that confronted him there. On reaching Axum, he destroyed the Church of Our Lady Mary of Zion, in which the Abyssinian emperors had for centuries been crowned.
The Abyssinians were forced to ask for help from the Portuguese, who landed at the port of Massawa on February 10, 1541, during the reign of the emperor Gelawdewos. The force was led by Cristóvão da Gama and included 400 musketeers as well as a number of artisans and other non-combatants. Da Gama and Imam Ahmad met on April 1, 1542 at Jarte, which Trimingham has identified with Anasa, between Amba Alagi and Lake Ashenge.[36] Here the Portuguese had their first glimpse of Ahmad, as recorded by Castanhoso:
While his camp was being pitched, the king of Zeila [Imam Ahmad] ascended a hill with several horse and some foot to examine us: he halted on the top with three hundred horse and three large banners, two white with red moons, and one red with a white moon, which always accompanied him, and [by] which he was recognized.[37]
On April 4, after the two unfamiliar armies had exchanged messages and stared at each other for a few days, da Gama formed his troops into an infantry square and marched against the Imam's lines, repelling successive waves of Muslim attacks with musket and cannon. This battle ended when Imam Ahmad was wounded in the leg by a chance shot; seeing his banners signal retreat, the Portuguese and their Abyssinian allies fell upon the disorganized Muslims, who suffered losses but managed to reform next to the river on the distant side.
Over the next several days, Imam Ahmad's forces were reinforced by arrivals of fresh troops. Understanding the need to act swiftly, da Gama on April 16 again formed a square which he led against Imam Ahmad's camp. Castanhoso laments that "the victory would have been complete this day had we only one hundred horses to finish it: for the King was carried on men's shoulders in a bed, accompanied by horsemen, and they fled in no order."[38]
Reinforced by the arrival of the Bahr negus Yeshaq, da Gama marched southward after Imam Ahmad's force, coming within sight of him ten days later. However, the onset of the rainy season prevented da Gama from engaging Ahmad a third time. On the advice of Queen Seble Wongel, da Gama made winter camp at Wofla near Lake Ashenge, still within sight of his opponent,[39] while the Imam made his winter camp on Mount Zobil.[40]
The Imam was forced to ask for help. According to Abbé João Bermudes [pt], Imam Ahmad received 2000 musketeers from Arabia, and artillery and 900 picked men from the Ottomans to assist him. Meanwhile, due to casualties and other duties, da Gama's force was reduced to 300 musketeers. After the rains ended, Imam Ahmad attacked the Portuguese camp and through weight of numbers killed all but 140 of da Gama's troops. Da Gama himself, badly wounded, was captured with ten of his men and, after refusing an offer to spare his life if he would convert to Islam, was executed.[41]
The survivors and Emperor Gelawdewos were afterward able to join forces and, drawing on the Portuguese supplies of muskets, attacked Ahmad on February 21, 1543 in the Battle of Wayna Daga, where their vastly outnumbered troops of 9,000 managed to defeat the 15,000 soldiers under Gragn. The Imam was beheaded and killed by a young Abyssinian commander of the cavalry named Azmach Calite who unsuccessfully presented his head as dowry to marry the Emperor's sister.[42]
His wife Bati del Wambara managed to escape the battlefield with a remnant of the Turkish soldiers, and they made their way back to Harar, where she rallied his followers. Intent on avenging her husband's death, she married his nephew Nur ibn Mujahid on condition that Nur would avenge Imam Ahmad's defeat. In 1550, Nur departed on a Jihad, or Holy War, in the eastern Abyssinian lowlands of Bale, and Hadiya but was repelled by Ras Fanu'el. Abyssinians launched a punitive expedition that captured vast amount of treasure and livestock and they sacked many towns including Harar.In 1559, he invaded Fatagar and Abyssinian emperor Galawdewos launched a second punitive expedition but was killed in battle.[43]
Legacy
"In Ethiopia the damage which Ahmad Gragn did has never been forgotten," wrote Paul B. Henze. "Every Christian highlander still hears tales of Gragn in his childhood. Haile Selassie referred to him in his memoirs, "I have often had villagers in northern Ethiopia point out sites of towns, forts, churches and monasteries destroyed by Gragn as if these catastrophes had occurred only yesterday."[44] To most Somalis Ahmad is a national hero who fought against Abyssinian aggression on their ancient territories.[45]
Sources
Ahmad's invasion of Abyssinia is described in detail in the Futuh al-habaša ("The Conquest of Ethiopia"), written in Arabic by Ahmad's follower Sihab ad-Din Admad ibn 'Abd-al-Qadir, in its current version incomplete, covering the story only to 1537, narrating the Imam's raids on the islands of Lake Tana. Richard Burton the explorer claimed that the second part could be found "in Mocha or Hudaydah"; but, despite later investigation, no one else has reported seeing a copy of this second part. The surviving first part was translated into French by René Basset and published 1897-1901. Richard Pankhurst made a partial translation into English as part of his The Ethiopian Royal Chronicles (Addis Ababa: Oxford University Press, 1967), and a complete translation of the Futuh al-habaša by Paul Lester Stenhouse was published by Tsehai in 2003 (ISBN 978-0-9723172-5-2).
Primary sources of the Portuguese expedition under Gama have been collected and translated by R.S. Whiteway, The Portuguese Expedition to Abyssinia in 1541–1543, 1902 (Nendeln, Liechtenstein: Kraus Reprint Limited, 1967). The Solomonic side of the story is represented in the royal chronicles of Emperor Lebna Dengel and his son, Emperor Gelawdewos.
. Statue of Ahmad ibn Ibrahim al-Ghazi in Mogadishu, Somalia
Reign c. 1527 – February 21, 1543
Predecessor Mahfuz
Successor Nur ibn Mujahid
Born c. 1506
Zeila, Adal Sultanate
Died February 21, 1543 (aged 36–37)
Wayna Daga, Ethiopian Empire
Spouse Bati del Wambara
Issue Mohammad ibn Ahmad[1]
Religion Islam
=======================================================================================================
Ahmad ibn Ibrahim al-Ghazi (Somali: Axmad Ibraahim al-Gaasi, Harari: አህመድ ኢብራሂም አል-ጋዚ, Arabic: أحمد بن إبراهيم الغازي ;[2] c. 1506 – 21 February 1543)[3] was a Somali Imam and General of the Adal Sultanate who fought against the Abyssinian empire.[3] With the help of an army overwhelmingly manned by ethnic Somalis,[4][5][6] supplemented with the Afars, Hararis and a small number of Ottoman Arabs and Turks.[7] Imam Ahmad (nicknamed Gurey in Somali, "Gura" in Afar and Gragn in Amharic (ግራኝ Graññ), all meaning "the left-handed"), embarked on a conquest which brought three-quarters of Abyssinia (modern day Ethiopia) under the power of the Muslim Sultanate of Adal during the Ethiopian-Adal War. [8]
Imam Ahmad is regarded by most scholars as an ethnic Somali[9] [10] [11] [12] [13] [14] [15] [16] [17] with Ahmad sometimes regarded as being a Harari.[18][19] while others regard him as Afar and Balaw.[20][21][22] Imam Ahmed's birth place is also disputed into two places with some saying he was born in Zeila and while some say he was born in Hubat[23][24] Many Somali clans played a strong role in Gurey's conquest of Abyssinia, however, it is said that these clans went to war not so much as Somalis but as Muslims.[25][26]
In the Futuh al-Habasa of Sihab ad-Din records that when the Sultan Umar Din of Harar and the Imam quarrelled over the distribution of the alms tax at some point between the Battle of Shimbra Kure and the Battle of Amba Sel, it led to Imam Ahmad leaving Harar to retire to live amongst Somalis for some time and regularly mediated disputes between clans. [27]
I. M. Lewis discusses the existence of another leader named Ahmad Gurey, and suggests that the two leaders have been conflated into one historical figure:
The text refers to two Ahmad's with the nickname 'Left-handed'. One is regularly presented as 'Ahmad Guray, the Somali' (...) identified as Ahmad Gurey Xuseyn, chief of the Habar Magaadle. Another reference, however, appears to link the Habar Magadle with the Eidagal. The other Ahmad is simply referred to as 'Imam Ahmad' or simply the 'Imam'.This Ahmad is not qualified by the adjective Somali (...) The two Ahmad's have been conflated into one figure, the heroic Ahmed Guray[28]
Historian Whiteway, R. S. (Richard Stephen) based on the accounts of the Portuguese expeditions to Abyssinia had this much to say about Imam Ahmads background:
Of the early history of the Imam Ahmad but little is known. He was the son of one Ibrahim el Ghazi, and both he and his father were common soldiers in the troop of Garad Aboun. Nothing even is said as to his nationality. He was certainly not an Arab : probably he was a Somali, for we find him closely connected with many who were Somalis.[29]
Early years
Ruins of the Sultanate of Adal in Zeila, Somalia.
Imam Ahmad was born in 1506 at Zeila, Adal Sultanate.[24] Due to the unislamic rule during the reign of Sultan Abu Bakr ibn Muhammad, Ahmad would leave Harar for Zeila.[30] He married Bati del Wambara, the daughter of Mahfuz, the Governor of Zeila.[31] In 1531, Bati would give birth to their first child named Muhammad.[1]
When Mahfuz was killed returning from a campaign against the Abyssinian emperor Dawit II in 1517,[32] the Adal sultanate lapsed into anarchy for several years, until Imam Ahmad killed the last of the contenders for power and took control of Harar.[33]
Ethiopian historians such as Azazh T'ino and Bahrey have written that during the period of his rise to power, Ahmad ibn Ibrahim al-Ghazi had converted many Oromo pastoral people to Islam.[34]
In retaliation for an attack on Adal the previous year by the Abyssinian general Degalhan, Imam Ahmad invaded Abyssinia in 1529, supplementing his force with considerable numbers of muskets purchased from the Ottomans, which would panic the Abyssinian troops. Imam Ahmad maintained the discipline of most of his men, defeating Emperor Dawit II at Shimbra Kure that March.[35]
Invasion of Abyssinia
Main article: Ethiopian-Adal War
The chronicle of Imam Ahmad's invasion of Abyssinia is depicted in various Somali, Abyssinian and other foreign sources. Imam Ahmad campaigned in Abyssinia in 1531, breaking Emperor Dawit II ability to resist in the Battle of Amba Sel on October 28. The Muslim army of Imam Ahmad then marched northward to loot the island monastery of Lake Hayq and the stone churches of Lalibela. When the Imam entered the province of Tigray, he defeated an Abyssinian army that confronted him there. On reaching Axum, he destroyed the Church of Our Lady Mary of Zion, in which the Abyssinian emperors had for centuries been crowned.
The Abyssinians were forced to ask for help from the Portuguese, who landed at the port of Massawa on February 10, 1541, during the reign of the emperor Gelawdewos. The force was led by Cristóvão da Gama and included 400 musketeers as well as a number of artisans and other non-combatants. Da Gama and Imam Ahmad met on April 1, 1542 at Jarte, which Trimingham has identified with Anasa, between Amba Alagi and Lake Ashenge.[36] Here the Portuguese had their first glimpse of Ahmad, as recorded by Castanhoso:
While his camp was being pitched, the king of Zeila [Imam Ahmad] ascended a hill with several horse and some foot to examine us: he halted on the top with three hundred horse and three large banners, two white with red moons, and one red with a white moon, which always accompanied him, and [by] which he was recognized.[37]
On April 4, after the two unfamiliar armies had exchanged messages and stared at each other for a few days, da Gama formed his troops into an infantry square and marched against the Imam's lines, repelling successive waves of Muslim attacks with musket and cannon. This battle ended when Imam Ahmad was wounded in the leg by a chance shot; seeing his banners signal retreat, the Portuguese and their Abyssinian allies fell upon the disorganized Muslims, who suffered losses but managed to reform next to the river on the distant side.
Over the next several days, Imam Ahmad's forces were reinforced by arrivals of fresh troops. Understanding the need to act swiftly, da Gama on April 16 again formed a square which he led against Imam Ahmad's camp. Castanhoso laments that "the victory would have been complete this day had we only one hundred horses to finish it: for the King was carried on men's shoulders in a bed, accompanied by horsemen, and they fled in no order."[38]
Reinforced by the arrival of the Bahr negus Yeshaq, da Gama marched southward after Imam Ahmad's force, coming within sight of him ten days later. However, the onset of the rainy season prevented da Gama from engaging Ahmad a third time. On the advice of Queen Seble Wongel, da Gama made winter camp at Wofla near Lake Ashenge, still within sight of his opponent,[39] while the Imam made his winter camp on Mount Zobil.[40]
The Imam was forced to ask for help. According to Abbé João Bermudes [pt], Imam Ahmad received 2000 musketeers from Arabia, and artillery and 900 picked men from the Ottomans to assist him. Meanwhile, due to casualties and other duties, da Gama's force was reduced to 300 musketeers. After the rains ended, Imam Ahmad attacked the Portuguese camp and through weight of numbers killed all but 140 of da Gama's troops. Da Gama himself, badly wounded, was captured with ten of his men and, after refusing an offer to spare his life if he would convert to Islam, was executed.[41]
The survivors and Emperor Gelawdewos were afterward able to join forces and, drawing on the Portuguese supplies of muskets, attacked Ahmad on February 21, 1543 in the Battle of Wayna Daga, where their vastly outnumbered troops of 9,000 managed to defeat the 15,000 soldiers under Gragn. The Imam was beheaded and killed by a young Abyssinian commander of the cavalry named Azmach Calite who unsuccessfully presented his head as dowry to marry the Emperor's sister.[42]
His wife Bati del Wambara managed to escape the battlefield with a remnant of the Turkish soldiers, and they made their way back to Harar, where she rallied his followers. Intent on avenging her husband's death, she married his nephew Nur ibn Mujahid on condition that Nur would avenge Imam Ahmad's defeat. In 1550, Nur departed on a Jihad, or Holy War, in the eastern Abyssinian lowlands of Bale, and Hadiya but was repelled by Ras Fanu'el. Abyssinians launched a punitive expedition that captured vast amount of treasure and livestock and they sacked many towns including Harar.In 1559, he invaded Fatagar and Abyssinian emperor Galawdewos launched a second punitive expedition but was killed in battle.[43]
Legacy
"In Ethiopia the damage which Ahmad Gragn did has never been forgotten," wrote Paul B. Henze. "Every Christian highlander still hears tales of Gragn in his childhood. Haile Selassie referred to him in his memoirs, "I have often had villagers in northern Ethiopia point out sites of towns, forts, churches and monasteries destroyed by Gragn as if these catastrophes had occurred only yesterday."[44] To most Somalis Ahmad is a national hero who fought against Abyssinian aggression on their ancient territories.[45]
Sources
Ahmad's invasion of Abyssinia is described in detail in the Futuh al-habaša ("The Conquest of Ethiopia"), written in Arabic by Ahmad's follower Sihab ad-Din Admad ibn 'Abd-al-Qadir, in its current version incomplete, covering the story only to 1537, narrating the Imam's raids on the islands of Lake Tana. Richard Burton the explorer claimed that the second part could be found "in Mocha or Hudaydah"; but, despite later investigation, no one else has reported seeing a copy of this second part. The surviving first part was translated into French by René Basset and published 1897-1901. Richard Pankhurst made a partial translation into English as part of his The Ethiopian Royal Chronicles (Addis Ababa: Oxford University Press, 1967), and a complete translation of the Futuh al-habaša by Paul Lester Stenhouse was published by Tsehai in 2003 (ISBN 978-0-9723172-5-2).
Primary sources of the Portuguese expedition under Gama have been collected and translated by R.S. Whiteway, The Portuguese Expedition to Abyssinia in 1541–1543, 1902 (Nendeln, Liechtenstein: Kraus Reprint Limited, 1967). The Solomonic side of the story is represented in the royal chronicles of Emperor Lebna Dengel and his son, Emperor Gelawdewos.
. Statue of Ahmad ibn Ibrahim al-Ghazi in Mogadishu, SomaliaReign c. 1527 – February 21, 1543
Predecessor Mahfuz
Successor Nur ibn Mujahid
Born c. 1506
Zeila, Adal Sultanate
Died February 21, 1543 (aged 36–37)
Wayna Daga, Ethiopian Empire
Spouse Bati del Wambara
Issue Mohammad ibn Ahmad[1]
Religion Islam
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Somaliman
- Member
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Re: Turkey is training 1000 pilots for Somalia!
Tarik,
Happy New Year, bro!
You never fail to teach the Agames!
Happy New Year, bro!
You never fail to teach the Agames!
Last edited by Somaliman on 04 Jan 2021, 21:24, edited 1 time in total.
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gearhead
- Member+
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Re: Turkey is training 1000 pilots for Somalia!
Never mind the insults of psychotic amhara. He cant help himself behave right when he is off a straightjacket or a testicular clamp.
That said, what is the significance of the one year old video. You havent identified yourself either. My understanding is that the opinion towards somalia-kenya maritime issues varies from what part of somalia you come.
That said, what is the significance of the one year old video. You havent identified yourself either. My understanding is that the opinion towards somalia-kenya maritime issues varies from what part of somalia you come.
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Somaliman
- Member
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- Location: Heaven
Re: Turkey is training 1000 pilots for Somalia!
gearhead wrote: ↑04 Jan 2021, 19:00Never mind the insults of psychotic amhara. He cant help himself behave right when he is off a straightjacket or a testicular clamp.
That said, what is the significance of the one year old video. You havent identified yourself either. My understanding is that the opinion towards somalia-kenya maritime issues varies from what part of somalia you come.
I just wanted to show that the Ugandese guy, in the video, was talking out of his arse.
You've got the wrong understanding on this, I'm afraid. All Somalis, including those in the enclave, known also as Somaliland, are on the same page on this maritime issue.My understanding is that the opinion towards somalia-kenya maritime issues varies from what part of somalia you come.
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gearhead
- Member+
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- Joined: 08 Jun 2014, 16:29
Re: Turkey is training 1000 pilots for Somalia!
Maritime demarcation is something new and interesting.btw, What happened to the court case that was supposed to happen June 2020? Did it take place, canceled, pushed for another day? Are there large commercial activities like oil rigs within the disputed territories?thanks for the lessons.
Somaliman wrote: ↑04 Jan 2021, 19:50gearhead wrote: ↑04 Jan 2021, 19:00Never mind the insults of psychotic amhara. He cant help himself behave right when he is off a straightjacket or a testicular clamp.
That said, what is the significance of the one year old video. You havent identified yourself either. My understanding is that the opinion towards somalia-kenya maritime issues varies from what part of somalia you come.
I just wanted to show that the Ugandese guy, in the video, was talking out of his arse.
You've got the wrong understanding on this, I'm afraid. All Somalis, including those in the enclave, known also as Somaliland, are on the same page on this maritime issue.My understanding is that the opinion towards somalia-kenya maritime issues varies from what part of somalia you come.
-
Somaliman
- Member
- Posts: 4979
- Joined: 09 Nov 2007, 20:12
- Location: Heaven
Re: Turkey is training 1000 pilots for Somalia!
gearhead wrote: ↑04 Jan 2021, 20:30Maritime demarcation is something new and interesting.btw, What happened to the court case that was supposed to happen June 2020? Did it take place, canceled, pushed for another day? Are there large commercial activities like oil rigs within the disputed territories?thanks for the lessons.
Somaliman wrote: ↑04 Jan 2021, 19:50gearhead wrote: ↑04 Jan 2021, 19:00Never mind the insults of psychotic amhara. He cant help himself behave right when he is off a straightjacket or a testicular clamp.
That said, what is the significance of the one year old video. You havent identified yourself either. My understanding is that the opinion towards somalia-kenya maritime issues varies from what part of somalia you come.
I just wanted to show that the Ugandese guy, in the video, was talking out of his arse.
You've got the wrong understanding on this, I'm afraid. All Somalis, including those in the enclave, known also as Somaliland, are on the same page on this maritime issue.My understanding is that the opinion towards somalia-kenya maritime issues varies from what part of somalia you come.
"The Maritime Delimitation in the Indian Ocean (Somalia v. Kenya) - Public hearings are postponed until March 2021" due to the current Coronafarce.
Following Somalia's legal protestations, Kenya was compelled to stop oil explorations in the "disputed" area.
https://www.icj-cij.org/en/case/161
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tarik
- Senior Member+
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gearhead
- Member+
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Re: Turkey is training 1000 pilots for Somalia!
Kenya has a weak case;reversing its own 1979 act with a presidential proclamation and redrawing baseline from equidistant to straight line along continental boundary? right?
1)but why the change in 2009? Did it also change along its tanzanian boarder.
2)what method of baseline does somalia apply along its djibouti boarder?
3)how big an investment of kenya is frozen?what country is exploring with kenya?
4)what caused the sudden seizure of diplomatic ties if they are waiting for proceedings to continue?
4)what suggestion of abiy was rebuffed by kenyata?
1)but why the change in 2009? Did it also change along its tanzanian boarder.
2)what method of baseline does somalia apply along its djibouti boarder?
3)how big an investment of kenya is frozen?what country is exploring with kenya?
4)what caused the sudden seizure of diplomatic ties if they are waiting for proceedings to continue?
4)what suggestion of abiy was rebuffed by kenyata?
Somaliman wrote: ↑04 Jan 2021, 21:02gearhead wrote: ↑04 Jan 2021, 20:30Maritime demarcation is something new and interesting.btw, What happened to the court case that was supposed to happen June 2020? Did it take place, canceled, pushed for another day? Are there large commercial activities like oil rigs within the disputed territories?thanks for the lessons.
Somaliman wrote: ↑04 Jan 2021, 19:50gearhead wrote: ↑04 Jan 2021, 19:00Never mind the insults of psychotic amhara. He cant help himself behave right when he is off a straightjacket or a testicular clamp.
That said, what is the significance of the one year old video. You havent identified yourself either. My understanding is that the opinion towards somalia-kenya maritime issues varies from what part of somalia you come.
I just wanted to show that the Ugandese guy, in the video, was talking out of his arse.
You've got the wrong understanding on this, I'm afraid. All Somalis, including those in the enclave, known also as Somaliland, are on the same page on this maritime issue.My understanding is that the opinion towards somalia-kenya maritime issues varies from what part of somalia you come.
"The Maritime Delimitation in the Indian Ocean (Somalia v. Kenya) - Public hearings are postponed until March 2021" due to the current Coronafarce.
Following Somalia's legal protestations, Kenya was compelled to stop oil explorations in the "disputed" area.
https://www.icj-cij.org/en/case/161
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Somaliman
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Re: Turkey is training 1000 pilots for Somalia!
gearhead wrote: ↑04 Jan 2021, 22:57Kenya has a weak case;reversing its own 1979 act with a presidential proclamation and redrawing baseline from equidistant to straight line along continental boundary? right?
1)but why the change in 2009? Did it also change along its tanzanian boarder.
2)what method of baseline does somalia apply along its djibouti boarder?
3)how big an investment of kenya is frozen?what country is exploring with kenya?
4)what caused the sudden seizure of diplomatic ties if they are waiting for proceedings to continue?
4)what suggestion of abiy was rebuffed by kenyata?
Somaliman wrote: ↑04 Jan 2021, 21:02gearhead wrote: ↑04 Jan 2021, 20:30Maritime demarcation is something new and interesting.btw, What happened to the court case that was supposed to happen June 2020? Did it take place, canceled, pushed for another day? Are there large commercial activities like oil rigs within the disputed territories?thanks for the lessons.
Somaliman wrote: ↑04 Jan 2021, 19:50gearhead wrote: ↑04 Jan 2021, 19:00Never mind the insults of psychotic amhara. He cant help himself behave right when he is off a straightjacket or a testicular clamp.
That said, what is the significance of the one year old video. You havent identified yourself either. My understanding is that the opinion towards somalia-kenya maritime issues varies from what part of somalia you come.
I just wanted to show that the Ugandese guy, in the video, was talking out of his arse.
You've got the wrong understanding on this, I'm afraid. All Somalis, including those in the enclave, known also as Somaliland, are on the same page on this maritime issue.My understanding is that the opinion towards somalia-kenya maritime issues varies from what part of somalia you come.
"The Maritime Delimitation in the Indian Ocean (Somalia v. Kenya) - Public hearings are postponed until March 2021" due to the current Coronafarce.
Following Somalia's legal protestations, Kenya was compelled to stop oil explorations in the "disputed" area.
https://www.icj-cij.org/en/case/161
This could also change Kenyan maritime border with Tanzania, and then Tanzania with Mozambique. This is one of the excuses Kenya has been using. But it was not Somalia that had invented maritime delimitation methods and tools, Somalia is just following international laws.
The UN advised, in 2009, that all disputed maritime areas around the world be readdressed. Since this area is believed to contain sizable oil and gas deposits, Kenya signed exploration and drilling contracts with foreign companies in 2009 without the consent of Somalia, taking advantage of the protracted chaos in Somalia. Kenya has, however, been ordered by the court to bring these explorations to an end without any delay.
Kenya never claimed this area prior to 2009. It was only since some companies, including an Italian, explored this area for them, and that it has decided to rush while Somalia is still in shambles.
Kenya has lately been melding in Somali internal affairs and the upcoming presidential election, because it is trying to see Farmajo gone at all costs, so they think they could renegotiate the maritime case and recall it from the court with the new president. Please note, Somalia is not rejecting negotiations between the two countries. But every effort in this regard was exhausted in the not-so-distant past, and trust me, Kenya has never shown good faith in this. Farmajo knows very well that he won't survive a week in power if he orders the case back from the court.
I'm not aware of any investment belonging to Kenya being frozen. Neither am I aware of any suggestion of PM Abiy being rebuffed, though I know the relationship between Somalia and Ethiopia has improved a lot since the arrival of PM Abiy.
Guess what, I've listened to the entire court proceedings, as I'm also fluent in French - as some of the lawyers in each camp spoke in French. The main arguments of Kenya were as follows:
1. The ICJ has no jurisdiction to arbitrate this case. This was categorically rejected by the court.
2. Somalia is ungrateful, as our army has been fighting Al-Shabab in Somalia.
3. We don't need to come to this court; we can sit together and talk, even though rounds of these talks took place between the two countries and none of them has borne fruit. They even failed to attend some of these meetings intentionally, without even providing any justifications or excuses. Simply they want to drag and kill time. This was evidenced at the court.
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gearhead
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Re: Turkey is training 1000 pilots for Somalia!
Somaliman,
Thank you much for walking me through this issue. Somalia indeed has a strong case! Just one more thing; what memorandum of understanding is kenya referring to in its complaints to the court?
Thank you much for walking me through this issue. Somalia indeed has a strong case! Just one more thing; what memorandum of understanding is kenya referring to in its complaints to the court?
Somaliman wrote: ↑05 Jan 2021, 21:02gearhead wrote: ↑04 Jan 2021, 22:57Kenya has a weak case;reversing its own 1979 act with a presidential proclamation and redrawing baseline from equidistant to straight line along continental boundary? right?
1)but why the change in 2009? Did it also change along its tanzanian boarder.
2)what method of baseline does somalia apply along its djibouti boarder?
3)how big an investment of kenya is frozen?what country is exploring with kenya?
4)what caused the sudden seizure of diplomatic ties if they are waiting for proceedings to continue?
4)what suggestion of abiy was rebuffed by kenyata?
Somaliman wrote: ↑04 Jan 2021, 21:02gearhead wrote: ↑04 Jan 2021, 20:30Maritime demarcation is something new and interesting.btw, What happened to the court case that was supposed to happen June 2020? Did it take place, canceled, pushed for another day? Are there large commercial activities like oil rigs within the disputed territories?thanks for the lessons.
Somaliman wrote: ↑04 Jan 2021, 19:50gearhead wrote: ↑04 Jan 2021, 19:00Never mind the insults of psychotic amhara. He cant help himself behave right when he is off a straightjacket or a testicular clamp.
That said, what is the significance of the one year old video. You havent identified yourself either. My understanding is that the opinion towards somalia-kenya maritime issues varies from what part of somalia you come.
I just wanted to show that the Ugandese guy, in the video, was talking out of his arse.
You've got the wrong understanding on this, I'm afraid. All Somalis, including those in the enclave, known also as Somaliland, are on the same page on this maritime issue.My understanding is that the opinion towards somalia-kenya maritime issues varies from what part of somalia you come.
"The Maritime Delimitation in the Indian Ocean (Somalia v. Kenya) - Public hearings are postponed until March 2021" due to the current Coronafarce.
Following Somalia's legal protestations, Kenya was compelled to stop oil explorations in the "disputed" area.
https://www.icj-cij.org/en/case/161
This could also change Kenyan maritime border with Tanzania, and then Tanzania with Mozambique. This is one of the excuses Kenya has been using. But it was not Somalia that had invented maritime delimitation methods and tools, Somalia is just following international laws.
The UN advised, in 2009, that all disputed maritime areas around the world be readdressed. Since this area is believed to contain sizable oil and gas deposits, Kenya signed exploration and drilling contracts with foreign companies in 2009 without the consent of Somalia, taking advantage of the protracted chaos in Somalia. Kenya has, however, been ordered by the court to bring these explorations to an end without any delay.
Kenya never claimed this area prior to 2009. It was only since some companies, including an Italian, explored this area for them, and that it has decided to rush while Somalia is still in shambles.
Kenya has lately been melding in Somali internal affairs and the upcoming presidential election, because it is trying to see Farmajo gone at all costs, so they think they could renegotiate the maritime case and recall it from the court with the new president. Please note, Somalia is not rejecting negotiations between the two countries. But every effort in this regard was exhausted in the not-so-distant past, and trust me, Kenya has never shown good faith in this. Farmajo knows very well that he won't survive a week in power if he orders the case back from the court.
I'm not aware of any investment belonging to Kenya being frozen. Neither am I aware of any suggestion of PM Abiy being rebuffed, though I know the relationship between Somalia and Ethiopia has improved a lot since the arrival of PM Abiy.
Guess what, I've listened to the entire court proceedings, as I'm also fluent in French - as some of the lawyers in each camp spoke in French. The main arguments of Kenya were as follows:
1. The ICJ has no jurisdiction to arbitrate this case. This was categorically rejected by the court.
2. Somalia is ungrateful, as our army has been fighting Al-Shabab in Somalia.
3. We don't need to come to this court; we can sit together and talk, even though rounds of these talks took place between the two countries and none of them has borne fruit. They even failed to attend some of these meetings intentionally, without even providing any justifications or excuses. Simply they want to drag and kill time. This was evidenced at the court.
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Somaliman
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- Location: Heaven
Re: Turkey is training 1000 pilots for Somalia!
gearhead wrote: ↑07 Jan 2021, 03:07Somaliman,
Thank you much for walking me through this issue. Somalia indeed has a strong case! Just one more thing; what memorandum of understanding is kenya referring to in its complaints to the court?
Somaliman wrote: ↑05 Jan 2021, 21:02gearhead wrote: ↑04 Jan 2021, 22:57Kenya has a weak case;reversing its own 1979 act with a presidential proclamation and redrawing baseline from equidistant to straight line along continental boundary? right?
1)but why the change in 2009? Did it also change along its tanzanian boarder.
2)what method of baseline does somalia apply along its djibouti boarder?
3)how big an investment of kenya is frozen?what country is exploring with kenya?
4)what caused the sudden seizure of diplomatic ties if they are waiting for proceedings to continue?
4)what suggestion of abiy was rebuffed by kenyata?
Somaliman wrote: ↑04 Jan 2021, 21:02gearhead wrote: ↑04 Jan 2021, 20:30Maritime demarcation is something new and interesting.btw, What happened to the court case that was supposed to happen June 2020? Did it take place, canceled, pushed for another day? Are there large commercial activities like oil rigs within the disputed territories?thanks for the lessons.
"The Maritime Delimitation in the Indian Ocean (Somalia v. Kenya) - Public hearings are postponed until March 2021" due to the current Coronafarce.
Following Somalia's legal protestations, Kenya was compelled to stop oil explorations in the "disputed" area.
https://www.icj-cij.org/en/case/161
This could also change Kenyan maritime border with Tanzania, and then Tanzania with Mozambique. This is one of the excuses Kenya has been using. But it was not Somalia that had invented maritime delimitation methods and tools, Somalia is just following international laws.
The UN advised, in 2009, that all disputed maritime areas around the world be readdressed. Since this area is believed to contain sizable oil and gas deposits, Kenya signed exploration and drilling contracts with foreign companies in 2009 without the consent of Somalia, taking advantage of the protracted chaos in Somalia. Kenya has, however, been ordered by the court to bring these explorations to an end without any delay.
Kenya never claimed this area prior to 2009. It was only since some companies, including an Italian, explored this area for them, and that it has decided to rush while Somalia is still in shambles.
Kenya has lately been melding in Somali internal affairs and the upcoming presidential election, because it is trying to see Farmajo gone at all costs, so they think they could renegotiate the maritime case and recall it from the court with the new president. Please note, Somalia is not rejecting negotiations between the two countries. But every effort in this regard was exhausted in the not-so-distant past, and trust me, Kenya has never shown good faith in this. Farmajo knows very well that he won't survive a week in power if he orders the case back from the court.
I'm not aware of any investment belonging to Kenya being frozen. Neither am I aware of any suggestion of PM Abiy being rebuffed, though I know the relationship between Somalia and Ethiopia has improved a lot since the arrival of PM Abiy.
Guess what, I've listened to the entire court proceedings, as I'm also fluent in French - as some of the lawyers in each camp spoke in French. The main arguments of Kenya were as follows:
1. The ICJ has no jurisdiction to arbitrate this case. This was categorically rejected by the court.
2. Somalia is ungrateful, as our army has been fighting Al-Shabab in Somalia.
3. We don't need to come to this court; we can sit together and talk, even though rounds of these talks took place between the two countries and none of them has borne fruit. They even failed to attend some of these meetings intentionally, without even providing any justifications or excuses. Simply they want to drag and kill time. This was evidenced at the court.
Yep, the MoU was, in fact, Kenya's main argument, claiming that both countries had signed an MoU and should stick with it; thus, no need to go to the ICJ. This claim was completely rejected by the court.
Firstly, a memorandum of understanding (MoU), as you know, is just a statement of intent agreed voluntarily by equal partners. It's not legally binding, neither does it create any legal obligations. MoU does not even mean anything at all in many languages, including French, Italian, Spanish, German etc, leave alone binding legally! It's no more different than you and I agreeing that you ask me questions about the Kenya-Somalia issue and that I do my best to answer with respect. You can pull out at anytime and I can do the same without any obligation whatsoever.
Secondly, A MoU, as the ICJ reminded Kenya, does not prevent anyone from taking their case to the court.
Third, Somalia would be happier to solve this dispute outside the ICJ, but Kenya, as I've mentioned earlier has never shown any good faith, including failing to attend meetings - while at the same time deploying exploration and drilling companies into the area and that some of them had even started drilling. All these were evidenced at the court.
Finally, the conclusion of this MoU was this:
"The delimitation of maritime boundaries in the areas under dispute, including the delimitation of the
continental shelf beyond 200 nautical miles, shall be agreed between the two coastal States on the basis of
international law after the Commission has concluded its examination of the separate submissions made by each of
the two coastal States and made its recommendations to two coastal States concerning the establishment ·of the outer
limits of the continental shelf beyond 200 nautical miles. This Memorandum of Understanding shall enter into force
upon its signature."
http://extwprlegs1.fao.org/docs/pdf/bi-158813.pdf
The following professor, in the video, below, starts with explaining that MoU does not mean anything whatsoever in French, and that, however, Kenya as proved had failed to show any good faith in proceeding with the MoU. This is a well-known professor in France.
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Somaliman
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- Location: Heaven
Re: Turkey is training 1000 pilots for Somalia!
BTW, the ICJ hasn't postponed the next court hearings simply due to the fact that coronavirus is around, but because Kenya had claimed that it was in dire straits and couldn't afford financially to re-organize its legal team.
This only shows the dishonesty of Kenya. C'mon Somalia can afford to fund its legal team but Kenya cannot!
This only shows the dishonesty of Kenya. C'mon Somalia can afford to fund its legal team but Kenya cannot!