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ethiopian
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Re: ሊገድሉኝ ሲመጡ ድረሱልኝ ማለቴ ምንድነው ጥፋቱ?? ኦቦ ጀዋር መሃመድ

Post by ethiopian » 23 Nov 2019, 20:28

Great interview, I wonder why the hooligans in Seattle and Denver hate this guy . Ohhh I know why - fear and hate of Oromians is their driving force .
Can anyone tell me a reason why you think Jawar is bad to Ethiopia ? I am asking just one reason .... ( don’t tell me the mencha comment 9 yrs ago - and that was taken out of context as well )

opmerc
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Re: ሊገድሉኝ ሲመጡ ድረሱልኝ ማለቴ ምንድነው ጥፋቱ?? ኦቦ ጀዋር መሃመድ

Post by opmerc » 23 Nov 2019, 21:15

ethiopian wrote:
23 Nov 2019, 20:28
Great interview, I wonder why the hooligans in Seattle and Denver hate this guy . Ohhh I know why - fear and hate of Oromians is their driving force .
Can anyone tell me a reason why you think Jawar is bad to Ethiopia ? I am asking just one reason .... ( don’t tell me the mencha comment 9 yrs ago - and that was taken out of context as well )
If what he said that night was true, which is highly doubtful, he had many options to exercise in that moment. He could have called the US consulate office, he could have called his friends or close confidants to come to his direct aide.. he could have called the media. Or he could have manned up and grabbed a weapon and defended himself if these mysterious assassins arrived. After all he is a black-belted tough guy. But a man who decides to call complete strangers to come to his defense and die for him is such an utter coward. A dangerous coward who will put the lives of hundreds of his own followers at risk to save his own neck. Imagine if he had any power or authority over a region. He would be a danger to all those under his care.

The alternative of course is he made up the whole situation so he can get this frenzy started and that frenzy can lead to a march on 4 kilo. The dangers in someone that would do such a thing need no explanation. This theory is to me the stronger of the two scenarios because as soon as the violence shifted from anger at Dr. Abiy to attacking citizens and being met with counter resistance, he told his thugs to shut it down.

So take your pick, either a dangerous snake or a dangerous coward.


Belayb
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Re: ሊገድሉኝ ሲመጡ ድረሱልኝ ማለቴ ምንድነው ጥፋቱ?? ኦቦ ጀዋር መሃመድ

Post by Belayb » 23 Nov 2019, 21:56

To be honest
I am not the supporter of Jawar and not an Oromo
I am not fluent in English language and can' type Amharic.
As I am a teacher will try to brief and present my views with the limited English skill ( Governmental School, Addis Ababa )
And I know only few accepts who is me, these days as every one is behind his ethnic.
As to me what Jawar has made is what every one is going to do when in such conditions. It is what is being expected from a real supporter to safeguard him. Of course what was planned by those who try to lift the protection to Jawar at around mid night was kill him and announce that he is being killid by robberies and then to cheat the innocent Oromos and divert to whatever they like. I haven't heard anything about why, who, how, ... ordered the lifting of the protection being examined which leaves above 86 people dead. People are shouting against Jawar at every direction as if he ordered to kill each other. It was better to bring evidence that Jawar is criminal and take the case to a court. I heard some people saying Dr. Abiy should arrest Jawar, but leave alone Dr. Abiy any one with the evidence showing Jawar is criminal can take the case to the court and see justice.
' Selam '

ethiopian
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Re: ሊገድሉኝ ሲመጡ ድረሱልኝ ማለቴ ምንድነው ጥፋቱ?? ኦቦ ጀዋር መሃመድ

Post by ethiopian » 23 Nov 2019, 22:00

Belayb wrote:
23 Nov 2019, 21:56
To be honest
I am not the supporter of Jawar and not an Oromo
I am not fluent in English language and can' type Amharic.
As I am a teacher will try to brief and present my views with the limited English skill ( Governmental School, Addis Ababa )
And I know only few accepts who is me, these days as every one is behind his ethnic.
As to me what Jawar has made is what every one is going to do when in such conditions. It is what is being expected from a real supporter to safeguard him. Of course what was planned by those who try to lift the protection to Jawar at around mid night was kill him and announce that he is being killid by robberies and then to cheat the innocent Oromos and divert to whatever they like. I haven't heard anything about why, who, how, ... ordered the lifting of the protection being examined which leaves above 86 people dead. People are shouting against Jawar at every direction as if he ordered to kill each other. It was better to bring evidence that Jawar is criminal and take the case to a court. I heard some people saying Dr. Abiy should arrest Jawar, but leave alone Dr. Abiy any one with the evidence showing Jawar is criminal can take the case to the court and see justice.
' Selam '
Rare to see a sane person at this ugly time in our history, thank you Sir for your honest in put

opmerc
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Re: ሊገድሉኝ ሲመጡ ድረሱልኝ ማለቴ ምንድነው ጥፋቱ?? ኦቦ ጀዋር መሃመድ

Post by opmerc » 23 Nov 2019, 22:30

Belayb wrote:
23 Nov 2019, 21:56
To be honest
I am not the supporter of Jawar and not an Oromo
I am not fluent in English language and can' type Amharic.
As I am a teacher will try to brief and present my views with the limited English skill ( Governmental School, Addis Ababa )
And I know only few accepts who is me, these days as every one is behind his ethnic.
As to me what Jawar has made is what every one is going to do when in such conditions. It is what is being expected from a real supporter to safeguard him. Of course what was planned by those who try to lift the protection to Jawar at around mid night was kill him and announce that he is being killid by robberies and then to cheat the innocent Oromos and divert to whatever they like. I haven't heard anything about why, who, how, ... ordered the lifting of the protection being examined which leaves above 86 people dead. People are shouting against Jawar at every direction as if he ordered to kill each other. It was better to bring evidence that Jawar is criminal and take the case to a court. I heard some people saying Dr. Abiy should arrest Jawar, but leave alone Dr. Abiy any one with the evidence showing Jawar is criminal can take the case to the court and see justice.
' Selam '
I'll take you at your word and you can reply in either Amharic or English, whichever one you feel most comfortable. You are right most are reacting to this story from the perspective of their ethnicity or tribal affiliations. But removing all of that for a second, even if you decided to believe his story completely that he was about to be attacked, you can't tell me risking his supporters lives was the best thing he could have done in that moment. Dr. Abiy was faced with an actual threat similar to this and he didn't get someone else to attack those soldiers for him or go on facebook to get his followers to die for him, he went out there and confronted those men. If Jawar had a fraction of the manhood Dr. Abiy had, he would have done the same. Instead he decides his followers are who should pay the price, not him. Does that sound like a fair thing to do to you?

What makes it even more unbelievable is he didn't even wait till he was actually under attack. No assassins actually arrived. If you take him on his word, he made that call on the assumption that the guards were lifted because maybe assassins were on their way. Maybe. So he got all those people killed on a maybe and he doesn't even have the decency to apologize for all those killed on his maybe.

Belayb
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Re: ሊገድሉኝ ሲመጡ ድረሱልኝ ማለቴ ምንድነው ጥፋቱ?? ኦቦ ጀዋር መሃመድ

Post by Belayb » 24 Nov 2019, 05:10

opmerc wrote:
23 Nov 2019, 22:30
Belayb wrote:
23 Nov 2019, 21:56
To be honest
I am not the supporter of Jawar and not an Oromo
I am not fluent in English language and can' type Amharic.
As I am a teacher will try to brief and present my views with the limited English skill ( Governmental School, Addis Ababa )
And I know only few accepts who is me, these days as every one is behind his ethnic.
As to me what Jawar has made is what every one is going to do when in such conditions. It is what is being expected from a real supporter to safeguard him. Of course what was planned by those who try to lift the protection to Jawar at around mid night was kill him and announce that he is being killid by robberies and then to cheat the innocent Oromos and divert to whatever they like. I haven't heard anything about why, who, how, ... ordered the lifting of the protection being examined which leaves above 86 people dead. People are shouting against Jawar at every direction as if he ordered to kill each other. It was better to bring evidence that Jawar is criminal and take the case to a court. I heard some people saying Dr. Abiy should arrest Jawar, but leave alone Dr. Abiy any one with the evidence showing Jawar is criminal can take the case to the court and see justice.
' Selam '
I'll take you at your word and you can reply in either Amharic or English, whichever one you feel most comfortable. You are right most are reacting to this story from the perspective of their ethnicity or tribal affiliations. But removing all of that for a second, even if you decided to believe his story completely that he was about to be attacked, you can't tell me risking his supporters lives was the best thing he could have done in that moment. Dr. Abiy was faced with an actual threat similar to this and he didn't get someone else to attack those soldiers for him or go on facebook to get his followers to die for him, he went out there and confronted those men. If Jawar had a fraction of the manhood Dr. Abiy had, he would have done the same. Instead he decides his followers are who should pay the price, not him. Does that sound like a fair thing to do to you?

What makes it even more unbelievable is he didn't even wait till he was actually under attack. No assassins actually arrived. If you take him on his word, he made that call on the assumption that the guards were lifted because maybe assassins were on their way. Maybe. So he got all those people killed on a maybe and he doesn't even have the decency to apologize for all those killed on his maybe.
Thanks for your kind response

I believe the story (that you named it) because there is no another story that disproves it yet. It is unusual for someone not to ask help when the person is in danger, however some people tries to confront it alone for different reasons, may be they believe can win the situation, not to make others in trouble, … . But how can Jawar ( or any one with five sense organs) predict that people will start to kill each other because he asked help from supporters?
How Dr. Abiy solved the situation was very skillful. He proves that he is a military commander too. When we see the situation of the two they have some differences. Dr. Abiy was not in a position to stand in front of the soldiers and post on facebook or some other media and the solution both used as to me was correct. We know that there are personal differences for different factors. For the same instances male/female, old/young, educated/uneducated, black/white, … will have different responses. In fact after the sport (push up,… ) and Army's Special Forces Discuss Pay Rises with PM Abiy Ahmed ends the assassins were circled by Armies marching from the nearby towns of Addis Ababa. Even that time they can kill him and complete mission probably from tplf but know hard to go out of the palace alive.

After Jawar posted for his supporters many of them reached around his home immediately and the guards too gets the courage not to accept the higher official orders and no assassins were around. If Jawar was to wait and see what we are talking about was to be on another topic that we both didn’t know.

justo
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Re: ሊገድሉኝ ሲመጡ ድረሱልኝ ማለቴ ምንድነው ጥፋቱ?? ኦቦ ጀዋር መሃመድ

Post by justo » 24 Nov 2019, 05:45

MatiT wrote:
23 Nov 2019, 19:23
Even now he is in a full mode of defending himself. The guy is immature and lacks the humility that comes with wisdom.
He says he doesn't understand his critics, what would they have wanted him to do, he asks.
Does he understand that the 80 people who died at the hand of his supporters do not give a damn.
The 80-year old man who was mutilated to death, can Jawar understand that this man and his family don't give a damn into what kind of trouble Jawar had inserted himself.
Jawar proudly talks of his influence, but fails to see that it is his influence that caused his supporters to mutilate people.
The guy does not seem to know it, that he has no political future with this kind of baggage.
Difficult though to call for him being brought to justice when Debretsion and Azeb Mesfin are freely walking the streets of Addis

Naga Tuma
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Re: ሊገድሉኝ ሲመጡ ድረሱልኝ ማለቴ ምንድነው ጥፋቱ?? ኦቦ ጀዋር መሃመድ

Post by Naga Tuma » 24 Nov 2019, 06:48

Belayb wrote:
23 Nov 2019, 21:56
To be honest
I am not the supporter of Jawar and not an Oromo
I am not fluent in English language and can' type Amharic.
As I am a teacher will try to brief and present my views with the limited English skill ( Governmental School, Addis Ababa )
And I know only few accepts who is me, these days as every one is behind his ethnic.
As to me what Jawar has made is what every one is going to do when in such conditions. It is what is being expected from a real supporter to safeguard him. Of course what was planned by those who try to lift the protection to Jawar at around mid night was kill him and announce that he is being killid by robberies and then to cheat the innocent Oromos and divert to whatever they like. I haven't heard anything about why, who, how, ... ordered the lifting of the protection being examined which leaves above 86 people dead. People are shouting against Jawar at every direction as if he ordered to kill each other. It was better to bring evidence that Jawar is criminal and take the case to a court. I heard some people saying Dr. Abiy should arrest Jawar, but leave alone Dr. Abiy any one with the evidence showing Jawar is criminal can take the case to the court and see justice.
' Selam '
I haven't made and I am not going to make any judgment about what he should have or shouldn't have done in the kind of situation that was reported on the internet at that time.

I was alarmed about the chaotic nature of the situation and the chaotic nature of the reported actions in response to it. A lack of professionalism in managing the situation was very evident.

After listening to this interview, I couldn't help wondering about the juxtapositions of his own testimonies. How could he find himself in a situation where, according to his own statements, the government that offered to protect him later tried to allegedly harm him? Does it say more about him or the other party to the conflict?

More importantly, at least after the sun came up and as a follow up to his initial social media post, couldn't and shouldn't he have advised all his supporters not to break any laws and if they did, they would be responsible?

opmerc
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Re: ሊገድሉኝ ሲመጡ ድረሱልኝ ማለቴ ምንድነው ጥፋቱ?? ኦቦ ጀዋር መሃመድ

Post by opmerc » 24 Nov 2019, 10:10

Belayb wrote:
24 Nov 2019, 05:10
Thanks for your kind response

I believe the story (that you named it) because there is no another story that disproves it yet. It is unusual for someone not to ask help when the person is in danger, however some people tries to confront it alone for different reasons, may be they believe can win the situation, not to make others in trouble, … . But how can Jawar ( or any one with five sense organs) predict that people will start to kill each other because he asked help from supporters?
How Dr. Abiy solved the situation was very skillful. He proves that he is a military commander too. When we see the situation of the two they have some differences. Dr. Abiy was not in a position to stand in front of the soldiers and post on facebook or some other media and the solution both used as to me was correct. We know that there are personal differences for different factors. For the same instances male/female, old/young, educated/uneducated, black/white, … will have different responses. In fact after the sport (push up,… ) and Army's Special Forces Discuss Pay Rises with PM Abiy Ahmed ends the assassins were circled by Armies marching from the nearby towns of Addis Ababa. Even that time they can kill him and complete mission probably from tplf but know hard to go out of the palace alive.

After Jawar posted for his supporters many of them reached around his home immediately and the guards too gets the courage not to accept the higher official orders and no assassins were around. If Jawar was to wait and see what we are talking about was to be on another topic that we both didn’t know.
As I already mentioned, even if his story was remotely true, the issue is who he asked that help from not that he asked for help. If professional killers were coming to kill me, it would say a lot about me that I would ask my young untrained followers to be my shield. I have the option of asking actual US soliders whose job it is to defend me and come to my aid. I could call the media for help (I also happen to own a whole media network) which would have the effect of driving them away. I could fire any of my weapons as soon as I heard, which have the same effect of causing a scene in a very restricted neighborhood, after all the house is right next to the Japan Embassy. I could have gotten in a car and ran off. All these options. but I choose the most destructive option possible. The one most likely to cause the most bloodshed for everyone else but me. That speaks to the level of concern I have for the well being of those around me. Followers or not.

We could even go one step further. Suppose I am someone who spends all day talking about being the biggest defender of the Oromo cause, that my life is dedicated to advancing it, etc. If I heard assassins were coming to kill me for what I believed, I would seriously consider letting them. My death would galvanize all Oromos and serve as a lightning rod for this cause for which I claim to care so much about. He actually bragged at one point that if there were a price to be paid for peace among Oromos that he's willing to pay that price. Well if you believe his story, the opportunity was right there and he decided everyone else but him can die for that cause.

I could even excuse that level of cowardice if he admitted afterwards to it and apologized to all those who were killed because he was too afraid to confront those supposed assassins by himself. But all he did was tell his followers to be on stand by (in other words, continue killing if I tell you to). Then he goes out to pose for pictures dressed in a martial arts outfit like he was some tough guy. Now he wants to cash out on this event by going from city to city to collect money from his hopelessly naive followers.

That should tell you who he is and what he really cares about.

Assegid S.
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Re: ሊገድሉኝ ሲመጡ ድረሱልኝ ማለቴ ምንድነው ጥፋቱ?? ኦቦ ጀዋር መሃመድ

Post by Assegid S. » 24 Nov 2019, 10:20

አዲስ የአጠያየቅ ስልት! ጠያቂ ጋዜጠኛ 9 ጥያቄዎችን ያቀርባል መላሽ ተጋባዥ የቀለለውን መርጦ ኣንዱን ይመልሳል። ትምህርት ቤት እያለን አልፎ አልፎ በፈተናው ወረቀት የመጨረሻ ገፅ ላይ ሁለት ወይንም ሶስት ጥያቄዎች በ 'bonus' መልክ ይቀርቡ ነበር። ተማሪው መርጦ ኣንዱን፣ የቀለለውን የሚመልስበት 'የማስተዛዘኛ' ጥያቄ። ያኛው ከዚህኛው የሚለየው ግን ... እንዲህ እንደ ብረትና ጥጥ ፍጥጥ ያለ ልዩነት ሳይኖር ... የሁሉም ጥያቄዎች ክብደት ተመሳሳይ ነበር።

Naga Tuma
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Re: ሊገድሉኝ ሲመጡ ድረሱልኝ ማለቴ ምንድነው ጥፋቱ?? ኦቦ ጀዋር መሃመድ

Post by Naga Tuma » 24 Nov 2019, 18:08

opmerc wrote:
24 Nov 2019, 10:10
Belayb wrote:
24 Nov 2019, 05:10
Thanks for your kind response

I believe the story (that you named it) because there is no another story that disproves it yet. It is unusual for someone not to ask help when the person is in danger, however some people tries to confront it alone for different reasons, may be they believe can win the situation, not to make others in trouble, … . But how can Jawar ( or any one with five sense organs) predict that people will start to kill each other because he asked help from supporters?
How Dr. Abiy solved the situation was very skillful. He proves that he is a military commander too. When we see the situation of the two they have some differences. Dr. Abiy was not in a position to stand in front of the soldiers and post on facebook or some other media and the solution both used as to me was correct. We know that there are personal differences for different factors. For the same instances male/female, old/young, educated/uneducated, black/white, … will have different responses. In fact after the sport (push up,… ) and Army's Special Forces Discuss Pay Rises with PM Abiy Ahmed ends the assassins were circled by Armies marching from the nearby towns of Addis Ababa. Even that time they can kill him and complete mission probably from tplf but know hard to go out of the palace alive.

After Jawar posted for his supporters many of them reached around his home immediately and the guards too gets the courage not to accept the higher official orders and no assassins were around. If Jawar was to wait and see what we are talking about was to be on another topic that we both didn’t know.
As I already mentioned, even if his story was remotely true, the issue is who he asked that help from not that he asked for help. If professional killers were coming to kill me, it would say a lot about me that I would ask my young untrained followers to be my shield. I have the option of asking actual US soliders whose job it is to defend me and come to my aid. I could call the media for help (I also happen to own a whole media network) which would have the effect of driving them away. I could fire any of my weapons as soon as I heard, which have the same effect of causing a scene in a very restricted neighborhood, after all the house is right next to the Japan Embassy. I could have gotten in a car and ran off. All these options. but I choose the most destructive option possible. The one most likely to cause the most bloodshed for everyone else but me. That speaks to the level of concern I have for the well being of those around me. Followers or not.

We could even go one step further. Suppose I am someone who spends all day talking about being the biggest defender of the Oromo cause, that my life is dedicated to advancing it, etc. If I heard assassins were coming to kill me for what I believed, I would seriously consider letting them. My death would galvanize all Oromos and serve as a lightning rod for this cause for which I claim to care so much about. He actually bragged at one point that if there were a price to be paid for peace among Oromos that he's willing to pay that price. Well if you believe his story, the opportunity was right there and he decided everyone else but him can die for that cause.

I could even excuse that level of cowardice if he admitted afterwards to it and apologized to all those who were killed because he was too afraid to confront those supposed assassins by himself. But all he did was tell his followers to be on stand by (in other words, continue killing if I tell you to). Then he goes out to pose for pictures dressed in a martial arts outfit like he was some tough guy. Now he wants to cash out on this event by going from city to city to collect money from his hopelessly naive followers.

That should tell you who he is and what he really cares about.
opmerc,

Even though I do not have expertise in law, it is my understanding that under the rule of law, there is no threshold between bravery and cowardice; the braves and cowards alike are entitled to their rights. The actions or inactions of anyone in this kind of situation becomes either a moral opinion or a legal question. Everybody has a moral opinion, which he or she is entitled to own.

The threshold for a legal opinion must be clear. In that sense, asking for help is not illegal. Neither is any failure to ask for the right kind of help. If both these statements are true, you have no point in stating that "the issue is who he asked that help from not that he asked for help." The point here is also well made by Belayb earlier in his closing statement.

Falling back to the moral universe, the issue becomes about two separate actions. The first one is what he did or failed to do in the face of a threat to him, real or perceived. The second one is what he failed to do in the face of real threats to others and all the actions of his supporters because of the first thing that he did or failed to do. So, the real issue in the face of his first action is his failure to tame what you called his hopelessly naive followers; I do not want to call them ራቱ ለፈ እረ ያቱ። His moral failure to do the right thing about the subsequent actions by his supporters, especially in the face of his braggings over the years about his capability to be the leader, not even a leader, makes it incredulous. You also seem to have observed the braggings.

That said, I also think that you are bragging about your media when he has shown to be the face of his media and it doesn't seem you have done the same.

Naga Tuma
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Re: ሊገድሉኝ ሲመጡ ድረሱልኝ ማለቴ ምንድነው ጥፋቱ?? ኦቦ ጀዋር መሃመድ

Post by Naga Tuma » 24 Nov 2019, 18:20

justo wrote:
24 Nov 2019, 05:45
MatiT wrote:
23 Nov 2019, 19:23
Even now he is in a full mode of defending himself. The guy is immature and lacks the humility that comes with wisdom.
He says he doesn't understand his critics, what would they have wanted him to do, he asks.
Does he understand that the 80 people who died at the hand of his supporters do not give a damn.
The 80-year old man who was mutilated to death, can Jawar understand that this man and his family don't give a damn into what kind of trouble Jawar had inserted himself.
Jawar proudly talks of his influence, but fails to see that it is his influence that caused his supporters to mutilate people.
The guy does not seem to know it, that he has no political future with this kind of baggage.
Difficult though to call for him being brought to justice when Debretsion and Azeb Mesfin are freely walking the streets of Addis
justo,

Do you think he has the synapses to understand what you observed and wrote here? I didn't think so and I do not think so. When he started to state in this interview that no individual can be a sole leader, I thought for a moment that he may have started to grow out of his immaturity. Hearing that from someone who bragged in the past about being an authoritative scientist who invented a political calculator that made a difference in Ethiopia sounded going in the right direction. Then again, it didn't last as long as the interview because later on in the interview, he assured his interviewer that he has the winning calculator/game that nobody else can operate/play better, that he is the teacher of politics and others are his students of politics.

opmerc
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Re: ሊገድሉኝ ሲመጡ ድረሱልኝ ማለቴ ምንድነው ጥፋቱ?? ኦቦ ጀዋር መሃመድ

Post by opmerc » 24 Nov 2019, 19:04

Naga Tuma wrote:
24 Nov 2019, 18:08
opmerc,

Even though I do not have expertise in law, it is my understanding that under the rule of law, there is no threshold between bravery and cowardice; the braves and cowards alike are entitled to their rights. The actions or inactions of anyone in this kind of situation becomes either a moral opinion or a legal question. Everybody has a moral opinion, which he or she is entitled to own.

The threshold for a legal opinion must be clear. In that sense, asking for help is not illegal. Neither is any failure to ask for the right kind of help. If both these statements are true, you have no point in stating that "the issue is who he asked that help from not that he asked for help." The point here is also well made by Belayb earlier in his closing statement.

Falling back to the moral universe, the issue becomes about two separate actions. The first one is what he did or failed to do in the face of a threat to him, real or perceived. The second one is what he failed to do in the face of real threats to others and all the actions of his supporters because of the first thing that he did or failed to do. So, the real issue in the face of his first action is his failure to tame what you called his hopelessly naive followers; I do not want to call them ራቱ ለፈ እረ ያቱ። His moral failure to do the right thing about the subsequent actions by his supporters, especially in the face of his braggings over the years about his capability to be the leader, not even a leader, makes it incredulous. You also seem to have observed the braggings.

That said, I also think that you are bragging about your media when he has shown to be the face of his media and it doesn't seem you have done the same.
Actually neither statement is necessarily true. There are many areas in which the law punishes actions that lead to loss of life and property. Those actions being caused by a feeling of cowardice or a moment of bravery have no real relevance. You can do brave things and commit acts that can be considered legally negligent as well. I mentioned that difference in temperament only to show that even in circumstances occurring exactly as he described them, there was nothing worthy about him as a person to follow or support.

The legal measurement that actually matters will come from whether any reasonable person can understand the negative outcome of their action, and if in the course of that action, any reasonable measures were taken to avoid that outcome. I think any reasonable person would understand that if you spend months priming a group of young impressionable youth with media you control to hate a specific group of people, then claim one day that you are about to be killed by that same group, those followers attacking anyone they believe belonging to that group is the most likely outcome. As I also listed above, there were many alternative courses to take for anyone in the circumstance he claims he was in. He could have taken any one of those alternative measures and have avoided that outcome. Inviting your 1M+ followers to come stand between you and alleged trained killers in of itself is inviting all those followers to get hurt in your place. Which is criminally negligent behavior. In addition, he did so without any actual evidence of the said killers.

I am not interested in witch hunts though and I want a legal process to find him culpable of that. I'm also sure any real investigation will uncover he had much more sinister motives than just being the late-night damsel in distress that he made himself out to be. In the mean time, I don't see the harm in protesting him and pointing out the insanity of his assertions as he makes them.

As for your final statement I couldn't really make out exactly what you were attempting to say there.

Naga Tuma
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Re: ሊገድሉኝ ሲመጡ ድረሱልኝ ማለቴ ምንድነው ጥፋቱ?? ኦቦ ጀዋር መሃመድ

Post by Naga Tuma » 25 Nov 2019, 01:51

opmerc wrote:
24 Nov 2019, 19:04
Naga Tuma wrote:
24 Nov 2019, 18:08
opmerc,

Even though I do not have expertise in law, it is my understanding that under the rule of law, there is no threshold between bravery and cowardice; the braves and cowards alike are entitled to their rights. The actions or inactions of anyone in this kind of situation becomes either a moral opinion or a legal question. Everybody has a moral opinion, which he or she is entitled to own.

The threshold for a legal opinion must be clear. In that sense, asking for help is not illegal. Neither is any failure to ask for the right kind of help. If both these statements are true, you have no point in stating that "the issue is who he asked that help from not that he asked for help." The point here is also well made by Belayb earlier in his closing statement.

Falling back to the moral universe, the issue becomes about two separate actions. The first one is what he did or failed to do in the face of a threat to him, real or perceived. The second one is what he failed to do in the face of real threats to others and all the actions of his supporters because of the first thing that he did or failed to do. So, the real issue in the face of his first action is his failure to tame what you called his hopelessly naive followers; I do not want to call them ራቱ ለፈ እረ ያቱ። His moral failure to do the right thing about the subsequent actions by his supporters, especially in the face of his braggings over the years about his capability to be the leader, not even a leader, makes it incredulous. You also seem to have observed the braggings.

That said, I also think that you are bragging about your media when he has shown to be the face of his media and it doesn't seem you have done the same.
Actually neither statement is necessarily true. There are many areas in which the law punishes actions that lead to loss of life and property. Those actions being caused by a feeling of cowardice or a moment of bravery have no real relevance. You can do brave things and commit acts that can be considered legally negligent as well. I mentioned that difference in temperament only to show that even in circumstances occurring exactly as he described them, there was nothing worthy about him as a person to follow or support.

The legal measurement that actually matters will come from whether any reasonable person can understand the negative outcome of their action, and if in the course of that action, any reasonable measures were taken to avoid that outcome. I think any reasonable person would understand that if you spend months priming a group of young impressionable youth with media you control to hate a specific group of people, then claim one day that you are about to be killed by that same group, those followers attacking anyone they believe belonging to that group is the most likely outcome. As I also listed above, there were many alternative courses to take for anyone in the circumstance he claims he was in. He could have taken any one of those alternative measures and have avoided that outcome. Inviting your 1M+ followers to come stand between you and alleged trained killers in of itself is inviting all those followers to get hurt in your place. Which is criminally negligent behavior. In addition, he did so without any actual evidence of the said killers.

I am not interested in witch hunts though and I want a legal process to find him culpable of that. I'm also sure any real investigation will uncover he had much more sinister motives than just being the late-night damsel in distress that he made himself out to be. In the mean time, I don't see the harm in protesting him and pointing out the insanity of his assertions as he makes them.

As for your final statement I couldn't really make out exactly what you were attempting to say there.
You are taking simple statements out of context and running with it outside the context. Here is the title of the thread: ሊገድሉኝ ሲመጡ ድረሱልኝ ማለቴ ምንድነው ጥፋቱ? If you are unable to read Amharic, it roughly means "what did I do wrong in asking for help when they came to assassinate me?" This is a picture that he painted. So far, you haven't been saying it is unfounded, it is a false allegation, and therefore he should take responsibility or be held responsible for the false allegation. Instead, you stated that "the issue is who he asked that help from not that he asked for help." This means you have already acknowledged that his asking for help subsequent to the picture that he painted, whether real or perceived, is not an issue. So, it goes without saying that it is either the real issue or asking for help is not an issue. I do not think that a lot of statements disprove such a simple logical error.

The final statement in my earlier comment is in reaction to this statement that you made above: "I could call the media for help (I also happen to own a whole media network) ..."

opmerc
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Re: ሊገድሉኝ ሲመጡ ድረሱልኝ ማለቴ ምንድነው ጥፋቱ?? ኦቦ ጀዋር መሃመድ

Post by opmerc » 25 Nov 2019, 10:09

Naga Tuma wrote:
25 Nov 2019, 01:51
You are taking simple statements out of context and running with it outside the context. Here is the title of the thread: ሊገድሉኝ ሲመጡ ድረሱልኝ ማለቴ ምንድነው ጥፋቱ? If you are unable to read Amharic, it roughly means "what did I do wrong in asking for help when they came to assassinate me?" This is a picture that he painted. So far, you haven't been saying it is unfounded, it is a false allegation, and therefore he should take responsibility or be held responsible for the false allegation. Instead, you stated that "the issue is who he asked that help from not that he asked for help." This means you have already acknowledged that his asking for help subsequent to the picture that he painted, whether real or perceived, is not an issue. So, it goes without saying that it is either the real issue or asking for help is not an issue. I do not think that a lot of statements disprove such a simple logical error.

The final statement in my earlier comment is in reaction to this statement that you made above: "I could call the media for help (I also happen to own a whole media network) ..."
If you read my earlier posts I already mention on several occasions that I don't believe him at all when he claims all he did was 'ask for help' because he believed people were coming to kill him. I think that's just a story he came up with and the real objective was to rally his supporters to come out impassioned and ready to do as he directed. There are several reasons why he would want to do this and I listed one of the main ones already. But I don't want to speculate further and I want an investigation to uncover what he was really up to and punish him accordingly.

What I went on to say was that even if by some miracle I were to accept his entire premise of what happened, I could make an argument that there were major issues in how he conducted himself. That is to say ወናዎ ጥፍቱ ፡ የሱን ሂወት እና አላማ ለማክሸፍ ለመጡ የሰለጠኑ ገዳዮች በሚሊዮን የሚቆጠሩ ተከታዬች እንዲሞቱለት ማድረጉ ።

ተከትሎ፡ ያህ ሁሉ ሰው በሱ ፍርኸት እና አነሳሳት ካለቀ በኃላ ይቅርታ አለመጠየቁ።

And thanks for the clarification on that last statement. If you follow the previous line before, I am putting myself in his shoes to imagine all the options available to me. So when I say I already own a large media network, I am describing him. In other words, if I were in his shoes in that moment, I have the option of calling media channels, including my own channel OMN, to come and be witnesses to the alleged assault on me.

Naga Tuma
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Re: ሊገድሉኝ ሲመጡ ድረሱልኝ ማለቴ ምንድነው ጥፋቱ?? ኦቦ ጀዋር መሃመድ

Post by Naga Tuma » 25 Nov 2019, 12:12

opmerc wrote:
25 Nov 2019, 10:09
Naga Tuma wrote:
25 Nov 2019, 01:51
You are taking simple statements out of context and running with it outside the context. Here is the title of the thread: ሊገድሉኝ ሲመጡ ድረሱልኝ ማለቴ ምንድነው ጥፋቱ? If you are unable to read Amharic, it roughly means "what did I do wrong in asking for help when they came to assassinate me?" This is a picture that he painted. So far, you haven't been saying it is unfounded, it is a false allegation, and therefore he should take responsibility or be held responsible for the false allegation. Instead, you stated that "the issue is who he asked that help from not that he asked for help." This means you have already acknowledged that his asking for help subsequent to the picture that he painted, whether real or perceived, is not an issue. So, it goes without saying that it is either the real issue or asking for help is not an issue. I do not think that a lot of statements disprove such a simple logical error.

The final statement in my earlier comment is in reaction to this statement that you made above: "I could call the media for help (I also happen to own a whole media network) ..."
If you read my earlier posts I already mention on several occasions that I don't believe him at all when he claims all he did was 'ask for help' because he believed people were coming to kill him. I think that's just a story he came up with and the real objective was to rally his supporters to come out impassioned and ready to do as he directed. There are several reasons why he would want to do this and I listed one of the main ones already. But I don't want to speculate further and I want an investigation to uncover what he was really up to and punish him accordingly.

What I went on to say was that even if by some miracle I were to accept his entire premise of what happened, I could make an argument that there were major issues in how he conducted himself. That is to say ወናዎ ጥፍቱ ፡ የሱን ሂወት እና አላማ ለማክሸፍ ለመጡ የሰለጠኑ ገዳዮች በሚሊዮን የሚቆጠሩ ተከታዬች እንዲሞቱለት ማድረጉ ።

ተከትሎ፡ ያህ ሁሉ ሰው በሱ ፍርኸት እና አነሳሳት ካለቀ በኃላ ይቅርታ አለመጠየቁ።

And thanks for the clarification on that last statement. If you follow the previous line before, I am putting myself in his shoes to imagine all the options available to me. So when I say I already own a large media network, I am describing him. In other words, if I were in his shoes in that moment, I have the option of calling media channels, including my own channel OMN, to come and be witnesses to the alleged assault on me.
So, you either don't believe him at all or you believe that his asking for help is not an issue and that who he asked help from is the issue. Just because you have two legs doesn't mean you can take a trek on two roads at the same time for a legal case. I don't know if the confused boy has the capacity for the intent you allege. If the intent is corroborated, it becomes a real issue.

The first I in your earlier statement came across as if you put yourself in his shoes. The second I in the statement in the bracket came across as if you were talking about yourself instead of putting yourself in his shoes.

kibramlak
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Re: ሊገድሉኝ ሲመጡ ድረሱልኝ ማለቴ ምንድነው ጥፋቱ?? ኦቦ ጀዋር መሃመድ

Post by kibramlak » 25 Nov 2019, 12:20

This is exactly what it should be. Unfortunately, he was not in that direction. There are ample records of his own that he was targeting Amhara and Christianty. I am sure, it will be a matter of time. He will harvest what he saw.
Naga Tuma wrote:
24 Nov 2019, 06:48
..,.......
More importantly, at least after the sun came up and as a follow up to his initial social media post, couldn't and shouldn't he have advised all his supporters not to break any laws and if they did, they would be responsible?

kibramlak
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Re: ሊገድሉኝ ሲመጡ ድረሱልኝ ማለቴ ምንድነው ጥፋቱ?? ኦቦ ጀዋር መሃመድ

Post by kibramlak » 25 Nov 2019, 12:36

Who told you beheading of innocents is good for Ethiopia.
Ahya, evil
ethiopian wrote:
23 Nov 2019, 20:28
Can anyone tell me a reason why you think Jawar is bad to Ethiopia ? I am asking just one reason .

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