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Khysion
Member
Posts: 1619
Joined: 06 Nov 2017, 16:34

Re: Three Origins of the Amhara People

Post by Khysion » 09 Jun 2019, 15:24

Za Dengel wrote:
09 Jun 2019, 14:37
Khysion wrote:
08 Jun 2019, 12:16
Definitely not Shewa! It used to be dominated by Muslims of Argobba, Harla and other Ethio-Semitic highland farmers and Cushitic nomads.

Shewa Sultanate ruled this area until they were disposed and colonized by Umar Walashma from Zeila, Ifat Sultanate. Ever since the Somali invasion in that province. The province population started to dwindle and they were harassed by Abyssinian raids. That's when Amhara moved into the region and settled across it.

According to most scholars. Their origins are Wollo, modern-day (Beta).
I think Amara originated in Shewa. Their is tradition and linguistic proof for that. The origin of Amara is closely related to the origin of their closest sister the Argobba. And stop portraying Ifat as Somali when it largely wasn’t. :lol:

And Shewa sultanate wasn’t located in Shewa or at least largely. Quote from Tadesse Tamrat book,
• “- The specific meaning od Shewa as applied to this Muslim principality is very uncertain. In Christian documents the name applied to the whole plateau south of the Wenchit-Addabay gorge and extending as far south as the Awash river. There is nothing tangible to show that the Muslim "Sultanate of Shewa" ever included any of the districts in the highland area west of the edge of the plateau. All the identifiable place names in Prof. Cerulli's document were still Muslim in 'Amde-SIyon's reign, Ibido, pp. 25-32. And in that period they clearly referred to the hot lowland areas east of the Shewan plateau where the "Sultnateof Shewa" must also be sought. For Al-'Umari "Shawa" was one of the "mother cities" of Ifat together with BIqulzar, Sime, and Adal, op.c.it.., pp. 8-9.. By the time he wrote (I342-9) it cannot have referred to the Shewan plateau which was securely in the hands of 'Amde-Siyon and Seyfe-Aratd. Among the different contingents that joined Gragn at Biqulzar his chronicler mentions a group recruited from a Muslim tribe called Shoa together with those of Hargafa, and GIdayah" Futuh al Habasha, tr. Basset, p. 173. In the Ethiopian chronicles Hargaye and Gidayah are mentioned in reference to Muslim districts east of Awash and Dewaro, cf. Perruchon, J., Histoire des guerres d'Amde-Siton, pp. 283, 318, 321 Les Chronigues de Zaria Ya'eqo, cit., p.166. Guidi,I., "Le canzoni ge’ez Amarigna", cit., p. 63, X. Probably the Muslim tribe of Showa also referred to the same region. More interesting still, a district of Scioa is mentioned among the other Adali districts of Sim, Nafab, Gidaya and Dakar in a document about the sixteenth century, Cerulli, E. "Documenti arabi", cit., p. 57, and n.6.”
Why did you not respond to my other posts? Too much evidence shut you up? :lol:

As for Amhara origins. Their origins are from Wollo.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=A0X ... &q&f=false

Ifat Sultanate emerged in northern Somalia and its capital was Zeila. The city Zeila was never conquered but was the first capital because if Zeila was conquered by Ifat then that would mean Ifat had another capital at the start but that isn't the case and you have no answers for it.

Shewa Sultatanate and Ifat Sultanate existed as two seperate kingdoms. One was located in northern Somalia and the other one in central Ethiopia. Ifat Sultanate conquered Shewa Sultanate and turned it into a vessel state.

Thus Ifat Sultanate became a multi-ethnic state but originally it was Somali and the elites were Somalis native to Zeila.

I've given you Harari and Arab medieval sources so you can't deny any of it.

Za Dengel
Member
Posts: 472
Joined: 30 Jun 2018, 10:22

Re: Three Origins of the Amhara People

Post by Za Dengel » 09 Jun 2019, 16:44

Khysion wrote:
09 Jun 2019, 15:24
Za Dengel wrote:
09 Jun 2019, 14:37
Khysion wrote:
08 Jun 2019, 12:16
Definitely not Shewa! It used to be dominated by Muslims of Argobba, Harla and other Ethio-Semitic highland farmers and Cushitic nomads.

Shewa Sultanate ruled this area until they were disposed and colonized by Umar Walashma from Zeila, Ifat Sultanate. Ever since the Somali invasion in that province. The province population started to dwindle and they were harassed by Abyssinian raids. That's when Amhara moved into the region and settled across it.

According to most scholars. Their origins are Wollo, modern-day (Beta).
I think Amara originated in Shewa. Their is tradition and linguistic proof for that. The origin of Amara is closely related to the origin of their closest sister the Argobba. And stop portraying Ifat as Somali when it largely wasn’t. :lol:

And Shewa sultanate wasn’t located in Shewa or at least largely. Quote from Tadesse Tamrat book,
• “- The specific meaning od Shewa as applied to this Muslim principality is very uncertain. In Christian documents the name applied to the whole plateau south of the Wenchit-Addabay gorge and extending as far south as the Awash river. There is nothing tangible to show that the Muslim "Sultanate of Shewa" ever included any of the districts in the highland area west of the edge of the plateau. All the identifiable place names in Prof. Cerulli's document were still Muslim in 'Amde-SIyon's reign, Ibido, pp. 25-32. And in that period they clearly referred to the hot lowland areas east of the Shewan plateau where the "Sultnateof Shewa" must also be sought. For Al-'Umari "Shawa" was one of the "mother cities" of Ifat together with BIqulzar, Sime, and Adal, op.c.it.., pp. 8-9.. By the time he wrote (I342-9) it cannot have referred to the Shewan plateau which was securely in the hands of 'Amde-Siyon and Seyfe-Aratd. Among the different contingents that joined Gragn at Biqulzar his chronicler mentions a group recruited from a Muslim tribe called Shoa together with those of Hargafa, and GIdayah" Futuh al Habasha, tr. Basset, p. 173. In the Ethiopian chronicles Hargaye and Gidayah are mentioned in reference to Muslim districts east of Awash and Dewaro, cf. Perruchon, J., Histoire des guerres d'Amde-Siton, pp. 283, 318, 321 Les Chronigues de Zaria Ya'eqo, cit., p.166. Guidi,I., "Le canzoni ge’ez Amarigna", cit., p. 63, X. Probably the Muslim tribe of Showa also referred to the same region. More interesting still, a district of Scioa is mentioned among the other Adali districts of Sim, Nafab, Gidaya and Dakar in a document about the sixteenth century, Cerulli, E. "Documenti arabi", cit., p. 57, and n.6.”
Why did you not respond to my other posts? Too much evidence shut you up? :lol:

As for Amhara origins. Their origins are from Wollo.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=A0X ... &q&f=false

Ifat Sultanate emerged in northern Somalia and its capital was Zeila. The city Zeila was never conquered but was the first capital because if Zeila was conquered by Ifat then that would mean Ifat had another capital at the start but that isn't the case and you have no answers for it.

Shewa Sultatanate and Ifat Sultanate existed as two seperate kingdoms. One was located in northern Somalia and the other one in central Ethiopia. Ifat Sultanate conquered Shewa Sultanate and turned it into a vessel state.

Thus Ifat Sultanate became a multi-ethnic state but originally it was Somali and the elites were Somalis native to Zeila.

I've given you Harari and Arab medieval sources so you can't deny any of it.
I didn’t replied again to your other reply because I felt agreement won’t be reached between us. And are you really a historian like you said? :lol:

If Ifat was Somali then why didn’t Amda Seyon I chronicle mention Somali when he conquered Ifat? Others like Argobba, Harla, Werji were mentioned but no Somali. :lol:

Portlandia
Member
Posts: 1043
Joined: 31 May 2016, 08:56

Re: Three Origins of the Amhara People

Post by Portlandia » 09 Jun 2019, 18:00

Za Dengel wrote:
09 Jun 2019, 16:44
Khysion wrote:
09 Jun 2019, 15:24
Za Dengel wrote:
09 Jun 2019, 14:37
Khysion wrote:
08 Jun 2019, 12:16
Definitely not Shewa! It used to be dominated by Muslims of Argobba, Harla and other Ethio-Semitic highland farmers and Cushitic nomads.

Shewa Sultanate ruled this area until they were disposed and colonized by Umar Walashma from Zeila, Ifat Sultanate. Ever since the Somali invasion in that province. The province population started to dwindle and they were harassed by Abyssinian raids. That's when Amhara moved into the region and settled across it.

According to most scholars. Their origins are Wollo, modern-day (Beta).
I think Amara originated in Shewa. Their is tradition and linguistic proof for that. The origin of Amara is closely related to the origin of their closest sister the Argobba. And stop portraying Ifat as Somali when it largely wasn’t. :lol:

And Shewa sultanate wasn’t located in Shewa or at least largely. Quote from Tadesse Tamrat book,
• “- The specific meaning od Shewa as applied to this Muslim principality is very uncertain. In Christian documents the name applied to the whole plateau south of the Wenchit-Addabay gorge and extending as far south as the Awash river. There is nothing tangible to show that the Muslim "Sultanate of Shewa" ever included any of the districts in the highland area west of the edge of the plateau. All the identifiable place names in Prof. Cerulli's document were still Muslim in 'Amde-SIyon's reign, Ibido, pp. 25-32. And in that period they clearly referred to the hot lowland areas east of the Shewan plateau where the "Sultnateof Shewa" must also be sought. For Al-'Umari "Shawa" was one of the "mother cities" of Ifat together with BIqulzar, Sime, and Adal, op.c.it.., pp. 8-9.. By the time he wrote (I342-9) it cannot have referred to the Shewan plateau which was securely in the hands of 'Amde-Siyon and Seyfe-Aratd. Among the different contingents that joined Gragn at Biqulzar his chronicler mentions a group recruited from a Muslim tribe called Shoa together with those of Hargafa, and GIdayah" Futuh al Habasha, tr. Basset, p. 173. In the Ethiopian chronicles Hargaye and Gidayah are mentioned in reference to Muslim districts east of Awash and Dewaro, cf. Perruchon, J., Histoire des guerres d'Amde-Siton, pp. 283, 318, 321 Les Chronigues de Zaria Ya'eqo, cit., p.166. Guidi,I., "Le canzoni ge’ez Amarigna", cit., p. 63, X. Probably the Muslim tribe of Showa also referred to the same region. More interesting still, a district of Scioa is mentioned among the other Adali districts of Sim, Nafab, Gidaya and Dakar in a document about the sixteenth century, Cerulli, E. "Documenti arabi", cit., p. 57, and n.6.”
Why did you not respond to my other posts? Too much evidence shut you up? :lol:

As for Amhara origins. Their origins are from Wollo.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=A0X ... &q&f=false

Ifat Sultanate emerged in northern Somalia and its capital was Zeila. The city Zeila was never conquered but was the first capital because if Zeila was conquered by Ifat then that would mean Ifat had another capital at the start but that isn't the case and you have no answers for it.

Shewa Sultatanate and Ifat Sultanate existed as two seperate kingdoms. One was located in northern Somalia and the other one in central Ethiopia. Ifat Sultanate conquered Shewa Sultanate and turned it into a vessel state.

Thus Ifat Sultanate became a multi-ethnic state but originally it was Somali and the elites were Somalis native to Zeila.

I've given you Harari and Arab medieval sources so you can't deny any of it.
I didn’t replied again to your other reply because I felt agreement won’t be reached between us. And are you really a historian like you said? :lol:

If Ifat was Somali then why didn’t Amda Seyon I chronicle mention Somali when he conquered Ifat? Others like Argobba, Harla, Werji were mentioned but no Somali. :lol:
You’re better off arguing with a camel then this guy

Portlandia
Member
Posts: 1043
Joined: 31 May 2016, 08:56

Re: Three Origins of the Amhara People

Post by Portlandia » 09 Jun 2019, 18:11

Khysion wrote:
09 Jun 2019, 15:24
Za Dengel wrote:
09 Jun 2019, 14:37
Khysion wrote:
08 Jun 2019, 12:16
Definitely not Shewa! It used to be dominated by Muslims of Argobba, Harla and other Ethio-Semitic highland farmers and Cushitic nomads.

Shewa Sultanate ruled this area until they were disposed and colonized by Umar Walashma from Zeila, Ifat Sultanate. Ever since the Somali invasion in that province. The province population started to dwindle and they were harassed by Abyssinian raids. That's when Amhara moved into the region and settled across it.

According to most scholars. Their origins are Wollo, modern-day (Beta).
I think Amara originated in Shewa. Their is tradition and linguistic proof for that. The origin of Amara is closely related to the origin of their closest sister the Argobba. And stop portraying Ifat as Somali when it largely wasn’t. :lol:

And Shewa sultanate wasn’t located in Shewa or at least largely. Quote from Tadesse Tamrat book,
• “- The specific meaning od Shewa as applied to this Muslim principality is very uncertain. In Christian documents the name applied to the whole plateau south of the Wenchit-Addabay gorge and extending as far south as the Awash river. There is nothing tangible to show that the Muslim "Sultanate of Shewa" ever included any of the districts in the highland area west of the edge of the plateau. All the identifiable place names in Prof. Cerulli's document were still Muslim in 'Amde-SIyon's reign, Ibido, pp. 25-32. And in that period they clearly referred to the hot lowland areas east of the Shewan plateau where the "Sultnateof Shewa" must also be sought. For Al-'Umari "Shawa" was one of the "mother cities" of Ifat together with BIqulzar, Sime, and Adal, op.c.it.., pp. 8-9.. By the time he wrote (I342-9) it cannot have referred to the Shewan plateau which was securely in the hands of 'Amde-Siyon and Seyfe-Aratd. Among the different contingents that joined Gragn at Biqulzar his chronicler mentions a group recruited from a Muslim tribe called Shoa together with those of Hargafa, and GIdayah" Futuh al Habasha, tr. Basset, p. 173. In the Ethiopian chronicles Hargaye and Gidayah are mentioned in reference to Muslim districts east of Awash and Dewaro, cf. Perruchon, J., Histoire des guerres d'Amde-Siton, pp. 283, 318, 321 Les Chronigues de Zaria Ya'eqo, cit., p.166. Guidi,I., "Le canzoni ge’ez Amarigna", cit., p. 63, X. Probably the Muslim tribe of Showa also referred to the same region. More interesting still, a district of Scioa is mentioned among the other Adali districts of Sim, Nafab, Gidaya and Dakar in a document about the sixteenth century, Cerulli, E. "Documenti arabi", cit., p. 57, and n.6.”
Why did you not respond to my other posts? Too much evidence shut you up? :lol:

As for Amhara origins. Their origins are from Wollo.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=A0X ... &q&f=false

Ifat Sultanate emerged in northern Somalia and its capital was Zeila. The city Zeila was never conquered but was the first capital because if Zeila was conquered by Ifat then that would mean Ifat had another capital at the start but that isn't the case and you have no answers for it.

Shewa Sultatanate and Ifat Sultanate existed as two seperate kingdoms. One was located in northern Somalia and the other one in central Ethiopia. Ifat Sultanate conquered Shewa Sultanate and turned it into a vessel state.

Thus Ifat Sultanate became a multi-ethnic state but originally it was Somali and the elites were Somalis native to Zeila.

I've given you Harari and Arab medieval sources so you can't deny any of it.
I think you’re mentally ill you seem to live in your own fantasy. Anyways take your pills and read about argobba and how they founded Walashma in ZAILA on page 179/182 https://www.persee.fr/doc/ethio_0066-21 ... m_16_1_973

Khysion
Member
Posts: 1619
Joined: 06 Nov 2017, 16:34

Re: Three Origins of the Amhara People

Post by Khysion » 10 Jun 2019, 15:59

Za Dengel wrote:
09 Jun 2019, 16:44
I didn’t replied again to your other reply because I felt agreement won’t be reached between us. And are you really a historian like you said? :lol:

If Ifat was Somali then why didn’t Amda Seyon I chronicle mention Somali when he conquered Ifat? Others like Argobba, Harla, Werji were mentioned but no Somali. :lol:
No, because I showed you two authentic Ethiopian sources along with one medieval Harari reference and you still denied them. It shows your intellectual dishonesty and revisionism, it's not cool brother. If you hate my people, that is fine but no need to distort our history.

They were mentioned in Amda Seyon I chronicle. They were called Simur. That is what Harla and Argobba used to call when they came in contact with northern Somalis. They even called Dawaro region as Simur. Established by the Dawaro clan but they have been assimilated by Oromos.

However, Amda Seyon conquered many Ifat colonies but not the core Somali population in the north. He looted Zeila, Abasa and Amud but was pushed back to Awubere. Another important Somali Ifat city. A place where Amda Seyon called it Teferi Ber which in Amharic denotes the name of Ras Tafari Makonnen's (Ge'ez ልጅ፡ ተፈሪ፡ መኮንን) Gate of Fear, the only threat for the Abyssinian Christian Empire. This is where Amda Seyon retreated back to Abyssinia.

Khysion
Member
Posts: 1619
Joined: 06 Nov 2017, 16:34

Re: Three Origins of the Amhara People

Post by Khysion » 10 Jun 2019, 16:09

Portlandia wrote:
09 Jun 2019, 18:11
I think you’re mentally ill you seem to live in your own fantasy. Anyways take your pills and read about argobba and how they founded Walashma in ZAILA on page 179/182 https://www.persee.fr/doc/ethio_0066-21 ... m_16_1_973
Aklilu Asfaw promotes myth. He has no academic research to make such falsified claims. There are no medieval references to back up those claims. I have posted Arab, Persian, Indian, Portuguese and Turk medieval sources stating that Zeila is a Somali city and that Walashma Dynasty speaks Somali and were elites of Ifat/Adal Sultanates.

Of course, you would vehemently deny them since you're a Harari dog

I've seen your old comments when you used to say "Somali were our kings and defenders". Now you've become an asswipe troll.

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