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Horus
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ያንዳርጋቸው ጽጌና የአግ7 መግለጫ አይቃረኑም፤ ችግሩ የኦሮሞ ድብቅ አጀንዳ ነው።

Post by Horus » 15 Mar 2019, 00:58

በኔ ግምት የፓርቲው ኦፊሻል መግለጫ ለስለስ ብሎ በሌበኩል ጥብቅ አመለካከት መኖሩ ትክክል ነው። ለምሳሌ እኔ የአንዳርጋቸው አመለካከት አለኝ። የጎሳ ፓርቲዎች ሕገ ወጥ መሆን አለባቸው። ግን ይህ ካልሆነ አግ7 አሁን ባለው ሪፎርም ወስጥ አይካፈል ሊባል አይቻልም።

Last edited by Horus on 15 Mar 2019, 01:15, edited 1 time in total.


Horus
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Joined: 19 Oct 2013, 19:34

Re: ያንዳርጋቸው ጽጌና የአግ7 መግለጫ አይቃረኑም

Post by Horus » 15 Mar 2019, 01:13

ነገር ግን የአግ7 እና የዜጋ ፖለቲካ ከፍተኛ ፈተና ከዘረኞች እያጋጠመው ነው። አግ7 ብዙ ክልሎች ውስጥ እንዳይገባ ዘረኞች ከልክለዉታል ለምሳሌ ኦሮሞ ሶማሌ ና ትግሬ !

eden
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Re: ያንዳርጋቸው ጽጌና የአግ7 መግለጫ አይቃረኑም፤ ችግሩ የኦሮሞ ድብቅ አጀንዳ ነው።

Post by eden » 15 Mar 2019, 08:24

Horus wrote:
15 Mar 2019, 00:58
በኔ ግምት የፓርቲው ኦፊሻል መግለጫ ለስለስ ብሎ በሌበኩል ጥብቅ አመለካከት መኖሩ ትክክል ነው። ለምሳሌ እኔ የአንዳርጋቸው አመለካከት አለኝ። የጎሳ ፓርቲዎች ሕገ ወጥ መሆን አለባቸው። ግን ይህ ካልሆነ አግ7 አሁን ባለው ሪፎርም ወስጥ አይካፈል ሊባል አይቻልም።
Religion based parties are banned but not parties based on ethnic affiliations. The reason for this discrepancy is the people. People advocate and tolerate their elites with the first organization type but not with the second. Why people are that way should be the question that needs to be researched to understand current Ethiopian affairs.

Horus
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Re: ያንዳርጋቸው ጽጌና የአግ7 መግለጫ አይቃረኑም፤ ችግሩ የኦሮሞ ድብቅ አጀንዳ ነው።

Post by Horus » 15 Mar 2019, 09:05

eden,
The answer to your question is/are :
The people you referred to/ ethnic elites are traditional or pre-political rather than political societies. Tribal or traditional or pre-political societies form their association and affiliations on the basis of not modern rational bases or categories like economy, residence, development, profession, nationhood but blood relations, belief, emotions and other non-modern criteria.

In short, the answer to your question is that people drive their lives based of tribal emotion because of their low level of cognitive rational development including low science, technology, knowledge, education, economy, and advanced thought.

Our problem is a problem of tribalism. That is all. People give it 1001 names but it is tribalism. It is African problem

Sam Ebalalehu
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Re: ያንዳርጋቸው ጽጌና የአግ7 መግለጫ አይቃረኑም፤ ችግሩ የኦሮሞ ድብቅ አጀንዳ ነው።

Post by Sam Ebalalehu » 15 Mar 2019, 10:07

Horus, wrote “ tribalism is an African problem.” I disagree. Compared to any other continent, yes, tribalism still persists in the African continent. But Ethiopia is an exception. She should be singled out as a country whose significant number of politicians breathe tribalism daily. There are no politicians in the world, even remotely close, who live tribal politics every living second as some Ethiopian politicians do. Tribal politics is the birth “right” of the ill-informed. Ethiopia has some of them. Tribal politics is a short-cut for power and money. Ethiopia has enough politicians who attest to that fact. It is no coincidence Ethiopia has found herself to be the enabler of corruption just in time when the tribal politics doctors came to power. I agree with Andargachew. Ethiopia will not be hostages for a few tribal politics demagogues. A line is to be drawn somewhere.

eden
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Re: ያንዳርጋቸው ጽጌና የአግ7 መግለጫ አይቃረኑም፤ ችግሩ የኦሮሞ ድብቅ አጀንዳ ነው።

Post by eden » 15 Mar 2019, 10:55

Horus wrote:
15 Mar 2019, 09:05
African
How do we explain others, say, Yugoslavia?
Horus wrote:
15 Mar 2019, 09:05
their low level of cognitive rational development including low science, technology, knowledge, education, economy, and advanced thought.
How do you explain Meles and Jawar who are not at lower levels but proposed ethnic based organization for today's Ethiopia?

Fitawrari Meshesha
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Re: ያንዳርጋቸው ጽጌና የአግ7 መግለጫ አይቃረኑም፤ ችግሩ የኦሮሞ ድብቅ አጀንዳ ነው።

Post by Fitawrari Meshesha » 15 Mar 2019, 11:47

I HATE STINKY SMELLY DISGUSTING GIMAATAM GONDERES. THEY ARE THE WORST FORM OF HUMAN BEING. Gim GiMe Gondere IS DIRTY and UGLY subhuman UGLY STUPID DIRTY

Horus
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Re: ያንዳርጋቸው ጽጌና የአግ7 መግለጫ አይቃረኑም፤ ችግሩ የኦሮሞ ድብቅ አጀንዳ ነው።

Post by Horus » 15 Mar 2019, 12:19

sam,

I agree with you 100%. I was using the comparative loosely. The Ethiopian tribal problem is in fact a pathology. There is a book just published in Addis arguing the Ethiopian tribal phenomena as being a form of mental disease, as a form of psychological disorder and social psychological disorder.

This also answers Eden's question how one would consider college graduates as persons of low development. Formal education is mere accumulation of information. In fact education or formal knowledge and competence or sets of sklls are not the same.

The ability to imagine, organize, and operate a functional social system requires highly developed sets of skills not merely a package of information which we call knowledge these days.

So, for those of us who had observed dozens and dozens of societies, social movements, and their ideologies - the Ethiopia process has not even begun. I am not being pessimist, just the facts.

Just one example.
At this poit of our political dialogue and searching, we should have reached a point where every one of us would be calling for the illegalization of tribal parties; illegalization of tribal federalism, the rejection of tribal constitution of Meles ze Woyane, etc.

We cannot travel the path of tribalism and solve the tribal crisis. Ethiopia is heading for a long and sad mutual slaughter of mentally collectively sick tribal masses.

People like Ararsa, Jawar, Dawud, their willing killers are sufferers of all sorts of trauma and PTSD and other disorders acting as if they are rational animals and acting out their psychological suffering in the name of politics.

The saddest part is we all buy the these sick behaviors as normal political action. So, we are also part of the tragedy.

eden
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Re: ያንዳርጋቸው ጽጌና የአግ7 መግለጫ አይቃረኑም፤ ችግሩ የኦሮሞ ድብቅ አጀንዳ ነው።

Post by eden » 16 Mar 2019, 00:16

Horus wrote:
15 Mar 2019, 12:19
The ability to imagine, organize, and operate a functional social system requires highly developed sets of skills
The likes of Meles and Jawar excel in these areas in comparison to, say, Mengistu. Yet they are "tribal" and he is not. So your theory doesn't hold water.

Horus
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Re: ያንዳርጋቸው ጽጌና የአግ7 መግለጫ አይቃረኑም፤ ችግሩ የኦሮሞ ድብቅ አጀንዳ ነው።

Post by Horus » 16 Mar 2019, 00:35

ኤድን፣

አልሰራ ብሎ ጊዜያችን ያባከነ ያለውኮ እነመለስ የጠፈጠፉት የበከተ የዘር ሰርዓት ነው። አዲዮስ !!

eden
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Re: ያንዳርጋቸው ጽጌና የአግ7 መግለጫ አይቃረኑም፤ ችግሩ የኦሮሞ ድብቅ አጀንዳ ነው።

Post by eden » 16 Mar 2019, 00:53

Horus wrote:
16 Mar 2019, 00:35
አልሰራ ብሎ ጊዜያችን ያባከነ ያለውኮ እነመለስ የጠፈጠፉት የበከተ የዘር ሰርዓት ነው።
Horus,


Where you go wrong is that you pick the wrong variables. You consider leaders/ rulers when what you should consider is the people they are trying to lead. My theory is that the level of "civility" of a given people determines the problem for these leaders/ rulers. The leaders are not the ones creating the problem that is wasting our time. The problem of "tribalism" is there already. Different leaders address this problem differently.

Mengistu and Abiy try to take the people away from "tribalism" and towards what they believe is civilized. This is your thinking.

Meles and Jawar would love to agree with Mengistu and Abiy here but they understand it's just a wish. This is my thinking. So they look for a workable solution. They take the existing level of "civility" of people (which they know is imperfect) as given and propose ways to make it more perfect than the prevailing situation.

You lament ethnic based organization has wasted time but that's not true. Ethiopian leaders/ rulers that followed your way has wasted 100 times more time than "tribalists" like Meles and Jawar and the problems are still here.

Horus
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Re: ያንዳርጋቸው ጽጌና የአግ7 መግለጫ አይቃረኑም፤ ችግሩ የኦሮሞ ድብቅ አጀንዳ ነው።

Post by Horus » 16 Mar 2019, 01:05

ኤደን፣
ይህ የመጨረሻዪ ነው ላንተ፡ ተራው ሕዝብ ከሚያምነውና ከሚያውቅው በላይ እውቀት ከሌለህ፣ ለምን እዚህ ትቀባጥራለህ፣ ሄደህ እርሽህን እረስ። እንኳንስ መሪ ጥሩ ተከታይ ስላይደለህ ። በቃ please don't reply to this. My response is final here to you !!!!

eden
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Re: ያንዳርጋቸው ጽጌና የአግ7 መግለጫ አይቃረኑም፤ ችግሩ የኦሮሞ ድብቅ አጀንዳ ነው።

Post by eden » 16 Mar 2019, 03:39

Horus,

Meles, Jawar and I are as "civilized" as Mengistu, Abiy and you. We are not "tribalists" like you perceive us to be. We are capable and even prefer to live in a non "tribalists" society that you preach we live in.

Please understand that ethnic based organization is not what we advocate because we are unable to assimilate and succeed otherwise, no! I bet Meles, Jawar and, Daud Ibsa and I thrive much better than Abiy, Mengistu, Isayas and you under any system anywhere be it Africa or the west.

ethnic based organization is what we advocate not because we are narrow minded folks who can't imagine our lives outside of our tribes like you think we are but because we, unlike you folks, understand society at this historical juncture hasn't arrived there yet. If society had arrived, we wouldn't have the issue to begin with.

Our solution is to deal with reality of millions, not our personal/ SELFISH reality; yours is to deny reality of millions and force your personal/ SELF CENTERED beliefs and thoughts and, guess what? you don't even know it.

Marc
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Re: ያንዳርጋቸው ጽጌና የአግ7 መግለጫ አይቃረኑም፤ ችግሩ የኦሮሞ ድብቅ አጀንዳ ነው።

Post by Marc » 16 Mar 2019, 04:06

eden wrote:
16 Mar 2019, 03:39
Horus,

Meles, Jawar and I are as "civilized" as Mengistu, Abiy and you. We are not "tribalists" like you perceive us to be. We are capable and even prefer to live in a non "tribalists" society that you preach we live in.

Please understand that ethnic based organization is not what we advocate because we are unable to assimilate and succeed otherwise, no! I bet Meles, Jawar and, Daud Ibsa and I thrive much better than Abiy, Mengistu, Isayas and you under any system anywhere be it Africa or the west.

ethnic based organization is what we advocate not because we are narrow minded folks who can't imagine our lives outside of our tribes like you think we are but because we, unlike you folks, understand society at this historical juncture hasn't arrived there yet. If society had arrived, we wouldn't have the issue to begin with.

Our solution is to deal with reality of millions, not our personal/ SELFISH reality; yours is to deny reality of millions and force your personal/ SELF CENTERED beliefs and thoughts and, guess what? you don't even know it.
I don't object the traditional ethnocentric views and the need to politically address the issue. However, in Ethiopia ethnocentric politics is actually not only favored but also made obligatory as of 1991. TPLF is the engine that developed unpopular constitution and imposed ethnic politics among Ethiopian people as must, one has to follow to get benefits as Ethiopian. I was expecting Abiy to refrain from that trend and allows the natural public interest, but that seems not the case. For example; if you observe towns in Addis Ababa round, the majority are non-muslim and liberal in ethnocentric views. Very unfortunately; Abiy administration brought several Oromo Muslim extremists from east and made them Mayor of the towns. That is clearly against the concept of democracy. To be honest, Abiy intensified ethnic politics more than TPLF itself and that seems disappointing for Ethiopians.

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