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DefendTheTruth
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Re: Demonizing Jawar is cowardly

Post by DefendTheTruth » 10 Nov 2019, 12:20

"Demonizing Jawar is cowardly"

What about lionizing someone who has undisputably caused, among others, the death of dozens of innocent citizens and damage of a sizable properties of pubilic and private domains alike?

Naga Tuma
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Re: Demonizing Jawar is cowardly

Post by Naga Tuma » 10 Nov 2019, 17:33

eden wrote:
27 Oct 2019, 11:24
Ethiopians should listen to Jawar's ideas and those opposing his ideas with ideas. Don't fall for those engaged in character assassination.
eden,

ኣብሶ እስክስታ ኣንተ ላይ ኣያምርም። ሌላ ኣንገት ፈልግ።

I don't personally know you and I have no idea who you might be as a person. However, I have engaged you in debates on this forum and felt you are the kind of person who doesn't need to borrow somebody else's faculty to give a simple answer for a simple question. Even if we are on different sides of a debate, that is the kind of faculty I respect highly.

On the other hand, I have personally met Jawar. My first encounter with him was at a community meeting when he was still an undergraduate student at Stanford University. At that first community meeting, who I observed was a ቀልበቢስ (lack of calmness) talkative, a young undergraduate student who was eager to try to answer a question that was thrown at him without understanding it. To this day, I do not think that he understood the question that was thrown at him that he tried to answer eagerly. It goes without saying that when anyone tries to answer a question that one didn't really understand, one is more likely to have not answered the question than answered it.

Later on, I came across his writings and expressed views on the internet. I may have engaged him in good faith on ManaBuna forum; I am not sure because I don't know for sure if some screen names belonged to him.

As time went on, I felt that he had a mix of intellectual potential and an immature sense of confidence. So, I thought I could impart a little wisdom upon him and decided in good faith to personally talk to him to advise him to focus on his undergraduate education, get more maturity and wisdom over time in order to go far enough with his potential as a student at Stanford University. Mind you, that good faith offer was not for character assassination, it was an unsolicited offer to help him build his character. I didn't want to see the potential that got him to Stanford University wasted, especially when we don't have many of them.

He reluctantly agreed to my offer and I decided to meet with him anyway while he was still a student there.

When we met one-on-one, I met the same kind of man that I felt I saw the first time at that community meeting. My offer unappreciated and his incapacity to listen unappreciated as well while his immature sense of confidence was left to time to tell.

My last words to him when we met one-one-one in my earnest effort to help him become more mature and wiser was the following: አነ ጫለ ከንቤክቱ ፈካተ። ጎርሰ ከን ስበርባችሱ ህን ፈካቱ። If my memory serves me well, these are the exact words with which I ended our one-on-one meeting. Roughly translated, it means you appear to know better than me. You don't appear to be in need of an advice.

My good faith effort ended there and time has been going along since then. Occasionally, I still take a little time to listen to his expressed views on the internet; most of the time, I do not finish listening to it. I have yet to find a moment of humility or humbleness in his expressed views. Maybe I have missed those moments if they ever existed. If anything, what I see is immaturity inflated into arrogance as if he has become the brain of Oromo movement in Ethiopia. I also feel that that arrogance has contributed to the pain of many Ethiopians in the ongoing civil unrest in the country. This is my observation from a distance.

That said, in fairness to your call about opposing ideas with ideas, do you know if he had any tangible contribution in the greatest debate of Afan Oromo speaking Ethiopians between 1991, wherever he was then, and 2004 when he was an undergraduate student at Stanford University? I wish to be enlightened about any ideas he may have had expressed during this greatest debate of the Afan Oromo speakers of Ethiopia. I will have more to say about it.

eden
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Re: Demonizing Jawar is cowardly

Post by eden » 16 Nov 2019, 18:11

So how do you interpret his announcement to run for election and your perception that he’s a demon? What gives him confidence to ask people for votes and yet he kills, displaces and burns? What does that say about what you think of the people who vote for him?
Selam/ wrote:
09 Nov 2019, 11:44
I know him well and have been directly following his speech for the last 12 years. I don’t need any interpretation.

eden wrote:
09 Nov 2019, 11:22
Selam,

Listen to Jawar, not what others say about Jawar.

DefendTheTruth
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Re: Demonizing Jawar is cowardly

Post by DefendTheTruth » 21 Nov 2019, 18:32

eden wrote:
27 Oct 2019, 11:24
Jawar dedicated his life to his people and humanity. His idea is not being challenged with counter ideas but with character assassination. I think most are engaged in this because they are afraid they lose in the market place for ideas.

PM Abiy is lucky to have Jawar with his wide legitimacy, interaction and knowledge of the Oromo, home to PM Abiy's party. It's his loss if he can't bring himself to work with the single most influential leader out of Oromia. It's a loss to Ethiopia and humanity at large.

Ethiopians should listen to Jawar's ideas and those opposing his ideas with ideas. Don't fall for those engaged in character assassination.

Some are advising the PM to arrest Jawar. This is clearly same as going back to the past Derg time or today's Eritrea. Jailings and killings of ideas never work. Look at Derg time Ethiopia. Look at today's Eritrea.

Hope you are someone who can understand Amharic and listen to this guys commentary and then defend you own claim based on objective ideas. Listen to this guy and come back and defend your idea, unless you too are in some sort of business over the human flesh and blood.

Come back and defend your idea at this "market place of ideas".


eden
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Re: Demonizing Jawar is cowardly

Post by eden » 19 Jan 2022, 20:48

Jailing or arresting is not the answer. Ideas have to be fought with ideas. Otherwise, it will be like derg or hgdef, total backwardness.
Last edited by eden on 19 Jan 2022, 21:25, edited 1 time in total.

Digital Weyane
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Re: Demonizing Jawar is cowardly

Post by Digital Weyane » 19 Jan 2022, 21:22

አሸባሪው ጁንታው ዎንድሜ eden/Sarcasm ጃዋርን ሲወድሰውና ሲያሞካሸው ባየሁ ቁጥር ጃዋር የወያኔ ተላላኪ መሆኑን ተረድቻለሁ። :roll: :roll:

eden
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Re: Demonizing Jawar is cowardly

Post by eden » 19 Jan 2022, 21:27

DefendTheTruth wrote:
10 Nov 2019, 12:20


someone who has undisputably caused, among others, the death of dozens of innocent citizens and damage of a sizable properties of pubilic and private domains

DefendTheLie,

If Jawar is as bad as you say he is, what does that say about your boy Abiy that released him?

Educator
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Re: Demonizing Jawar is cowardly

Post by Educator » 20 Jan 2022, 01:00

Jawar appeared on many independent media that were against him including on Meaza Mohamed show. So just throwing lies hoping no one fact checks is absurd and immature.

On the other hand, Abiy aka Mamo Killo is the only dictator who is so afraid to be interviewed by any local or international free media and never had the courage to even do one.. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
DefendTheTruth wrote:
21 Nov 2019, 18:32
eden wrote:
27 Oct 2019, 11:24
Jawar dedicated his life to his people and humanity. His idea is not being challenged with counter ideas but with character assassination. I think most are engaged in this because they are afraid they lose in the market place for ideas.

PM Abiy is lucky to have Jawar with his wide legitimacy, interaction and knowledge of the Oromo, home to PM Abiy's party. It's his loss if he can't bring himself to work with the single most influential leader out of Oromia. It's a loss to Ethiopia and humanity at large.

Ethiopians should listen to Jawar's ideas and those opposing his ideas with ideas. Don't fall for those engaged in character assassination.

Some are advising the PM to arrest Jawar. This is clearly same as going back to the past Derg time or today's Eritrea. Jailings and killings of ideas never work. Look at Derg time Ethiopia. Look at today's Eritrea.

Hope you are someone who can understand Amharic and listen to this guys commentary and then defend you own claim based on objective ideas. Listen to this guy and come back and defend your idea, unless you too are in some sort of business over the human flesh and blood.

Come back and defend your idea at this "market place of ideas".

Last edited by Educator on 20 Jan 2022, 12:36, edited 1 time in total.

eden
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Re: Demonizing Jawar is cowardly

Post by eden » 20 Jan 2022, 14:42

Educator wrote:
20 Jan 2022, 01:00
Jawar appeared in many independent media that were against him including on Meaza Mohamed show.
Right on! Jawar not only did "hostile" interviews but he did town hall meetings in parts of the country where his views are highly challenged.

DefendTheTruth
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Re: Demonizing Jawar is cowardly

Post by DefendTheTruth » 20 Jan 2022, 15:12

eden wrote:
19 Jan 2022, 21:27
DefendTheTruth wrote:
10 Nov 2019, 12:20


someone who has undisputably caused, among others, the death of dozens of innocent citizens and damage of a sizable properties of pubilic and private domains

DefendTheLie,

If Jawar is as bad as you say he is, what does that say about your boy Abiy that released him?
I have to come across any argument that you won on this forum since I started reading your posts here and there. Losing an argument is not a sin or much a weakness, but after losing still trying to stick on is a totally different issue, in my view.

According to Obbo Lencho Leta, who claimed to have mediated the release of thoe released recently, all have pledged to behave well this time around. If they may happen to misstep, then the release is just a matter of the past.

Jawahr will now never dare to come out and claim things like Meskerem 30 (remember?) or something like there are two governments, one lead by PM Abiy Ahmed and the other Qeerroo Government (lead by Jawar Mohammed himself).

In short, Jawar now knows his true size.

But you don't, do you?

Abere
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Re: Demonizing Jawar is cowardly

Post by Abere » 20 Jan 2022, 15:32

ሰው ተገኝቶ ተሙቷል.. ሄሄሄ ጁሃር ሀምበርገር እና ምላስ እንጅ ልብ የለውም። ጥብቅ ሲይዘው አንድ ጊዜ እናቴ እኮ አማራ እና ኦርቶዶክስ ለቀቅ ሲያደርጉት እኔ ሙልጭ ያልኩ እስላም ኦሮሞ ነኝ - ኢትዮጵያ ፍርሶ ቅብጥሮሶ ቅብጥርሶ። ዘረጦ ኦሮሙማ ዛሬ ቢለቀቅ ሂሳብ ሳይወራረድበት አይቀርም - ያስገደላቸ ስዎች እና ያቃጠለው ከተማ እና ቤተ እምነት ይጠይቁታል። የተቃጠሉ እና የሞቱት ሰዎች የአብይ አህመድ አይደሉም ይቅርታና ፍርድ የሚሰጡት ባለቤቶቹ ናቸው።

Educator
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Re: Demonizing Jawar is cowardly

Post by Educator » 20 Jan 2022, 15:44

DefendTheTruth,
You probably intended to respond to eden but the notification came right to me because you replied to me but edited the replied post. I usually feel happy when they equate me with eden cause I feel her posts here are always decent and substantive and I feel proud of myself and my writing if anyone thinks I and eden are one and the same. But in this case I feel obligated to let you know so that I will get to enjoy her response to your comment if you correctly address your reply to her.
DefendTheTruth wrote:
20 Jan 2022, 15:12
eden wrote:
19 Jan 2022, 21:27
DefendTheTruth wrote:
10 Nov 2019, 12:20


someone who has undisputably caused, among others, the death of dozens of innocent citizens and damage of a sizable properties of pubilic and private domains

DefendTheLie,

If Jawar is as bad as you say he is, what does that say about your boy Abiy that released him?
I have to come across any argument that you won on this forum since I started reading your posts here and there. Losing an argument is not a sin or much a weakness, but after losing still trying to stick on is a totally different issue, in my view.

According to Obbo Lencho Leta, who claimed to have mediated the release of thoe released recently, all have pledged to behave well this time around. If they may happen to misstep, then the release is just a matter of the past.

Jawahr will now never dare to come out and claim things like Meskerem 30 (remember?) or something like there are two governments, one lead by PM Abiy Ahmed and the other Qeerroo Government (lead by Jawar Mohammed himself).

In short, Jawar now knows his true size.

But you don't, do you?

DefendTheTruth
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Posts: 6228
Joined: 08 Mar 2014, 16:32

Re: Demonizing Jawar is cowardly

Post by DefendTheTruth » 20 Jan 2022, 15:52

Educator wrote:
20 Jan 2022, 15:44
DefendTheTruth,
You probably intended to respond to eden but the notification came right to me because you replied to me but edited the replied post. I usually feel happy when they equate me with eden cause I feel her posts here are always decent and substantive and I feel proud of myself and my writing if anyone thinks I and eden are one and the same. But in this case I feel obligated to let you know so that I will get to enjoy her response to your comment if you correctly address your reply to her.
DefendTheTruth wrote:
20 Jan 2022, 15:12
eden wrote:
19 Jan 2022, 21:27
DefendTheTruth wrote:
10 Nov 2019, 12:20


someone who has undisputably caused, among others, the death of dozens of innocent citizens and damage of a sizable properties of pubilic and private domains

DefendTheLie,

If Jawar is as bad as you say he is, what does that say about your boy Abiy that released him?
I have to come across any argument that you won on this forum since I started reading your posts here and there. Losing an argument is not a sin or much a weakness, but after losing still trying to stick on is a totally different issue, in my view.

According to Obbo Lencho Leta, who claimed to have mediated the release of thoe released recently, all have pledged to behave well this time around. If they may happen to misstep, then the release is just a matter of the past.

Jawahr will now never dare to come out and claim things like Meskerem 30 (remember?) or something like there are two governments, one lead by PM Abiy Ahmed and the other Qeerroo Government (lead by Jawar Mohammed himself).

In short, Jawar now knows his true size.

But you don't, do you?
It is really exceptional, when someone of the best minds on the forum is also dying for attention.

I may edit your post but database is not allowed to do any of that sort.

Let's query the database, if you agree?

Naga Tuma
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Re: Demonizing Jawar is cowardly

Post by Naga Tuma » 20 Jan 2022, 18:51

I always remember the Ethiopia out of Oromia rant that was recorded in Washington, D.C., and put on the internet.

ኢትዮጵያ ትፍረስ ማለት ባርነት ይንገስ ማለት ኣይዴለም? ማረምያ ቤትም ደግሞት ይሆን? ኢትዮጵያ ተስተካክላ ትሰማራ ኣንድ ነዉ። ኢትዮጵያ ትፍረስ ሌላ ነዉ።

ወጣት ሳለሁ መናገር ስያሰኝ ሃዸ ራዕይ እንል ነበር።
Last edited by Naga Tuma on 20 Jan 2022, 19:46, edited 1 time in total.

eden
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Re: Demonizing Jawar is cowardly

Post by eden » 20 Jan 2022, 19:05

Naga Tuma,

If you study great leaders in this world, you will find their beliefs and convictions EVOLVE. It's foolish to evaluate a leader by what transpired during their earlier days. Like any humans, they grow and adjust as their reach expands in response to their ever enriching life experience. My understanding is that Jawar contact with the outside world (outside Oromia) picked up in the later part of his political life.


P.S. DefendTheLie,

If you want folks to take your posts seriously, stay away from posting known propaganda videos like above.

P.S. DefendTheLie,

If you want folks to take your posts seriously, stay away from posting known propaganda videos like above.
Last edited by eden on 20 Jan 2022, 19:24, edited 3 times in total.

Naga Tuma
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Re: Demonizing Jawar is cowardly

Post by Naga Tuma » 20 Jan 2022, 19:08

ህዝብም ሆኑ ግለሰብ ሁሌ ልክ ናቸዉ ማለት ኣይቻልም። የህዝብ ዉሳኔ ከግለሰብ ዉሳኔ በላይ ነዉ ማለት ይቻላል።

ህዝብ ሲሳሳት ተጠያቂነቱን ግለሰብ ላይ መጫን ኣይችልም። ህዝቡ ስህተቱን ኣስተዉሎ መንገዱን ያስተካክላል።

ህዝብ መሳሳት እንደሚችል ኣባይን፣ ኣዋሽን፣ ባሮን፣ ተከዜን፣ ገናሌን፣ እና ሌሎች የኢትዮጵያ ወንዞችን ቀስቅሶ የዮርዳኖስ ወንዝ ከእናንተ ይበልጣል ወይ ብሎ መጠየቅ ነዉ።

Naga Tuma
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Re: Demonizing Jawar is cowardly

Post by Naga Tuma » 20 Jan 2022, 19:18

eden wrote:
20 Jan 2022, 19:05
Naga Tuma,

If you study great leaders in this world, you will find their beliefs and convictions EVOLVE. It's foolish to evaluate a leader by what transpired during their earlier days. Like any humans, they grow and adjust as their reach expands in response to their ever enriching life experience.
eden,

I don't disagree with that. I have to also admit that I am as lazy as it gets in studying about the history of great leaders in this world. I am a student of logic. I have read you to be good at it as well. In that logic, we can both see the wisdom of age and age old convictions.

DefendTheTruth
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Re: Demonizing Jawar is cowardly

Post by DefendTheTruth » 21 Jan 2022, 10:15

eden wrote:
20 Jan 2022, 19:05
It's foolish to evaluate a leader by what transpired during their earlier days. Like any humans, they grow and adjust as their reach expands in response to their ever enriching life experience. My understanding is that Jawar contact with the outside world (outside Oromia) picked up in the later part of his political life.


P.S. DefendTheLie,

If you want folks to take your posts seriously, stay away from posting known propaganda videos like above.

P.S. DefendTheLie,

If you want folks to take your posts seriously, stay away from posting known propaganda videos like above.
How many times do you have to keep contradicting yourself?

You tried to imply Abiy Ahmed changed, you then suddenly also confess that it is Janjoo who have changed himself (has grown and adjusted himself to the reality).

The reality remained the same all along.

Atuu fiddee, atuu fixee, goes a saying (something like you started it and you finished it, figuratively).

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