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sebdoyeley
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Joined: 14 Feb 2020, 04:27

should Ethiopia let the ethnocentric party decide its fate, just for the sake of democracy? fu*ck Democracy

Post by sebdoyeley » 19 Jun 2021, 17:59

Socrates
The whole business of Democracy.
..If you are heading out on a journey to the sea, who would you ideally want to decide who would be in charge of the vessel?
..just anyone? asked Socrates.

.....should we let the foolish and irresponsible people decide our fate? or the expertise and well-informed people?
of course, the expertise and the well informed we should put our fate.

So, why then, do we keep thinking that any person should be fit to judge, who should be a ruler of a country.

Socrates Argues:
..voting in an Election should be taught like any other skills, not a random intuition, It needs to be taught systematically to people.
...Letting the citizenry voting without a proper education is as irresponsible as putting them in charge of a trireme sailing to Samos in a storm.

...Socrates was to have first-hand catastrophic experience of the foolishness of the voters....

My thought on the Ethiopia case
.. twist and bend the hand of the voter in your favour, you can't let the drunk and irresponsible decide a nation 120 million for the sake of democracy.fu*ck democracy
.
Last edited by sebdoyeley on 19 Jun 2021, 19:19, edited 6 times in total.

Abere
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Posts: 2610
Joined: 18 Jul 2019, 20:52

Re: should Ethiopia let the ethnocentric party decide its fate, just for the sake of democracy? fu*ck Democracy

Post by Abere » 19 Jun 2021, 18:37

With a 100% certainty this election will not change anything. It will be the same old thing. Almost all parties with the exception 1 or 2 are all ethnic based party staring from PP itself. The most important point is will the country ban ethnic political party and ethnic federation after this election after having learnt how much useless and harmful it is. We know that there is no true democracy in this world it is all fake. It will never be achieved. But what is more important for majority of African countries is good leaders. Good leaders are those that feel and follow the heart beat of their ordinary citizens, that put bread on the tables of citizens, put country first, fair-minded, nonethnocentric. Election in Ethiopia has been waste of money and time in the last TPLF's fake 99.9% election. Since TPLF was greedy they did not even concede 1 seat, they were not only but also stupid. This time these so called opposition parties might be given a few seats, but will never be allowed to win. This certain. We know PP will lose 95% of the vote but, it will claim it won 95% of the vote of Addis Ababa. The trick is known. To me election is waste of time. Even for a better fake election ( election without undesirable consequences) the architecture of the system of governance matters. Ethiopians don't elect their president, it is a meaningless election. The system was pre-tailored by narrow parochial mind TPLF/Melese Zenawi -- የዕድር ምርጫ ቅርፅ ነው ያለው። ዕድር ግን በጣም ጠቃሚ የሆነ ማህበራዊ ተቋም ነው።

sebdoyeley
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Posts: 4532
Joined: 14 Feb 2020, 04:27

Re: should Ethiopia let the ethnocentric party decide its fate, just for the sake of democracy? fu*ck Democracy

Post by sebdoyeley » 19 Jun 2021, 19:07

The young king is in a test, on one side he has to prove to the west, that He is all into democracy on another hand he has to guard the unity of the nation. tough time.
Abere wrote:
19 Jun 2021, 18:37
With a 100% certainty this election will not change anything. It will be the same old thing. Almost all parties with the exception 1 or 2 are all ethnic based party staring from PP itself. The most important point is will the country ban ethnic political party and ethnic federation after this election after having learnt how much useless and harmful it is. We know that there is no true democracy in this world it is all fake. It will never be achieved. But what is more important for majority of African countries is good leaders. Good leaders are those that feel and follow the heart beat of their ordinary citizens, that put bread on the tables of citizens, put country first, fair-minded, nonethnocentric. Election in Ethiopia has been waste of money and time in the last TPLF's fake 99.9% election. Since TPLF was greedy they did not even concede 1 seat, they were not only but also stupid. This time these so called opposition parties might be given a few seats, but will never be allowed to win. This certain. We know PP will lose 95% of the vote but, it will claim it won 95% of the vote of Addis Ababa. The trick is known. To me election is waste of time. Even for a better fake election ( election without undesirable consequences) the architecture of the system of governance matters. Ethiopians don't elect their president, it is a meaningless election. The system was pre-tailored by narrow parochial mind TPLF/Melese Zenawi -- የዕድር ምርጫ ቅርፅ ነው ያለው። ዕድር ግን በጣም ጠቃሚ የሆነ ማህበራዊ ተቋም ነው።

Blueshift
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Posts: 654
Joined: 30 Mar 2021, 19:34

Re: should Ethiopia let the ethnocentric party decide its fate, just for the sake of democracy? fu*ck Democracy

Post by Blueshift » 19 Jun 2021, 20:11

Sebdeyeley,

You must be the wife of Sebdeyeley. Actually, you have a little English in you. I know both of you use the same nick. Here is your husband. I couldn't tell which side is his mouth located ?
:lol:

Blueshift
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Posts: 654
Joined: 30 Mar 2021, 19:34

Re: should Ethiopia let the ethnocentric party decide its fate, just for the sake of democracy? fu*ck Democracy

Post by Blueshift » 19 Jun 2021, 20:32

Denqoro Sebneykoney,

You are stupid. What do you know about democracy ? Who the hell are you to lecture Ethiopians ? They need you to die for them not your freaking monkey like brain !!!!! :lol: Look in the mirror assz ho-le. This is what you look like. :lol: :lol:

Abere
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Posts: 2610
Joined: 18 Jul 2019, 20:52

Re: should Ethiopia let the ethnocentric party decide its fate, just for the sake of democracy? fu*ck Democracy

Post by Abere » 19 Jun 2021, 21:09

I think you are right, Abiy is between a rock and hard place. This becomes more painful particularly when the leader is from a developing African country. The West set the bar too high when it comes to Africans, while they set their own's low and easily trip over it. On the other hand, there are plenty of external and domestics aid that want to hurt the sovereignty of our country while sovereignty of a country is an inviolable and sacred of any country - a matter of life and death. I honestly don't short sell the sovereignty of my country ( the oldest independent nation on planet earth) for the so called Western democracy, which is still strange to themselves too. One of the qualities I admire about Isaias Afework is, he is not playing kids game by staging fake election and waste the time and money of the people. More importantly, elections cost lives of several innocent people more than the money. All the last fake elections left many dead, families lost their breadwinner and others waste their precious time in prison. Democracy means safety and security of ordinary citizens. And this needs a strong and decisive quality leadership. A leader of 100 &+ millions should not give and ear to rag tag rebels such as TPLF or OLF and hypocritical western countries who themselves complained how much their elections are plagued by fraud. If something is inherently fraud you don't need to invest in it. It is Ponzi scheme. Soverrinity is the bottom-line of a qualified and competent leadership. Ethiopia should pay attention to this.
sebdoyeley wrote:
19 Jun 2021, 19:07
The young king is in a test, on one side he has to prove to the west, that He is all into democracy on another hand he has to guard the unity of the nation. tough time.
Abere wrote:
19 Jun 2021, 18:37
With a 100% certainty this election will not change anything. It will be the same old thing. Almost all parties with the exception 1 or 2 are all ethnic based party staring from PP itself. The most important point is will the country ban ethnic political party and ethnic federation after this election after having learnt how much useless and harmful it is. We know that there is no true democracy in this world it is all fake. It will never be achieved. But what is more important for majority of African countries is good leaders. Good leaders are those that feel and follow the heart beat of their ordinary citizens, that put bread on the tables of citizens, put country first, fair-minded, nonethnocentric. Election in Ethiopia has been waste of money and time in the last TPLF's fake 99.9% election. Since TPLF was greedy they did not even concede 1 seat, they were not only but also stupid. This time these so called opposition parties might be given a few seats, but will never be allowed to win. This certain. We know PP will lose 95% of the vote but, it will claim it won 95% of the vote of Addis Ababa. The trick is known. To me election is waste of time. Even for a better fake election ( election without undesirable consequences) the architecture of the system of governance matters. Ethiopians don't elect their president, it is a meaningless election. The system was pre-tailored by narrow parochial mind TPLF/Melese Zenawi -- የዕድር ምርጫ ቅርፅ ነው ያለው። ዕድር ግን በጣም ጠቃሚ የሆነ ማህበራዊ ተቋም ነው።

Blueshift
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Posts: 654
Joined: 30 Mar 2021, 19:34

Re: should Ethiopia let the ethnocentric party decide its fate, just for the sake of democracy? fu*ck Democracy

Post by Blueshift » 19 Jun 2021, 21:36

Abere,

No body said, democracy is perfect. But, it is the better system that holds the country together. Look at European countries. Look at their way of life. The standard of living. Compare that with the dictatorial bantus and where they are. The whole Europe combined does not have natural wealth as the poor country of Africa known as Zaire. Problems in Africa, Africans should look in the mirror. Here are some examples of Asian tigers who were in worst situation than Africa back in the fifties. South Korea, Singapore, etc... Eritrea is far better located in the strategic sea called the RedSea, than Singapore, on the South East China sea. Look at the two countries. Compare Eritrea to Singapore back in the 90's and Eritrea today. That would make them comparable in regard to age after independence. Anyhow, No dictator can survive in Ethiopia anymore. Ethiopians have tasted a sense of little freedom during HIM and the Weyanes as crooks as they were. They were able to give Addis a new face. Back in 1935, Asmara was compared to some Italian beautiful cities. Addis Ababa was nothing but a muddy village. Now compare the two cities together. That is frightening. Is that what you want to shoot for ? What Ethiopian need first and foremost is peace. Peace does not come from a single winner in the stakeholders company. Only fair negotiation makes it possible. Ethiopia of the old is not coming back again. May be tourism staff. Weyanes era is not coming back again either. You guys need to negotiate if you want a country called Ethiopia.

sebdoyeley
Member
Posts: 4532
Joined: 14 Feb 2020, 04:27

Re: should Ethiopia let the ethnocentric party decide its fate, just for the sake of democracy? fu*ck Democracy

Post by sebdoyeley » 20 Jun 2021, 04:03

Thank you for that well-summerised sire.
It occurred to me that for Isias the small size of the population may help him to control and guide wherever he wants, at the same time, He didn't receive a country messed up by ethnic sickness like Dr Abey. The agame had been sowing hatred in Ethiopia for the last 27 years of their rule for their own benefit.
All we can do is wait and hope that the election to be peaceful and successful.
Abere wrote:
19 Jun 2021, 21:09
I think you are right, Abiy is between a rock and hard place. This becomes more painful particularly when the leader is from a developing African country. The West set the bar too high when it comes to Africans, while they set their own's low and easily trip over it. On the other hand, there are plenty of external and domestics aid that want to hurt the sovereignty of our country while sovereignty of a country is an inviolable and sacred of any country - a matter of life and death. I honestly don't short sell the sovereignty of my country ( the oldest independent nation on planet earth) for the so called Western democracy, which is still strange to themselves too. One of the qualities I admire about Isaias Afework is, he is not playing kids game by staging fake election and waste the time and money of the people. More importantly, elections cost lives of several innocent people more than the money. All the last fake elections left many dead, families lost their breadwinner and others waste their precious time in prison. Democracy means safety and security of ordinary citizens. And this needs a strong and decisive quality leadership. A leader of 100 &+ millions should not give and ear to rag tag rebels such as TPLF or OLF and hypocritical western countries who themselves complained how much their elections are plagued by fraud. If something is inherently fraud you don't need to invest in it. It is Ponzi scheme. Soverrinity is the bottom-line of a qualified and competent leadership. Ethiopia should pay attention to this.
sebdoyeley wrote:
19 Jun 2021, 19:07
The young king is in a test, on one side he has to prove to the west, that He is all into democracy on another hand he has to guard the unity of the nation. tough time.
Abere wrote:
19 Jun 2021, 18:37
With a 100% certainty this election will not change anything. It will be the same old thing. Almost all parties with the exception 1 or 2 are all ethnic based party staring from PP itself. The most important point is will the country ban ethnic political party and ethnic federation after this election after having learnt how much useless and harmful it is. We know that there is no true democracy in this world it is all fake. It will never be achieved. But what is more important for majority of African countries is good leaders. Good leaders are those that feel and follow the heart beat of their ordinary citizens, that put bread on the tables of citizens, put country first, fair-minded, nonethnocentric. Election in Ethiopia has been waste of money and time in the last TPLF's fake 99.9% election. Since TPLF was greedy they did not even concede 1 seat, they were not only but also stupid. This time these so called opposition parties might be given a few seats, but will never be allowed to win. This certain. We know PP will lose 95% of the vote but, it will claim it won 95% of the vote of Addis Ababa. The trick is known. To me election is waste of time. Even for a better fake election ( election without undesirable consequences) the architecture of the system of governance matters. Ethiopians don't elect their president, it is a meaningless election. The system was pre-tailored by narrow parochial mind TPLF/Melese Zenawi -- የዕድር ምርጫ ቅርፅ ነው ያለው። ዕድር ግን በጣም ጠቃሚ የሆነ ማህበራዊ ተቋም ነው።

DefendTheTruth
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Posts: 4867
Joined: 08 Mar 2014, 16:32

Re: should Ethiopia let the ethnocentric party decide its fate, just for the sake of democracy? fu*ck Democracy

Post by DefendTheTruth » 20 Jun 2021, 05:25

sebdoyeley wrote:
19 Jun 2021, 17:59
Socrates
The whole business of Democracy.
..If you are heading out on a journey to the sea, who would you ideally want to decide who would be in charge of the vessel?
..just anyone? asked Socrates.

.....should we let the foolish and irresponsible people decide our fate? or the expertise and well-informed people?
of course, the expertise and the well informed we should put our fate.

So, why then, do we keep thinking that any person should be fit to judge, who should be a ruler of a country.

Socrates Argues:
..voting in an Election should be taught like any other skills, not a random intuition, It needs to be taught systematically to people.
...Letting the citizenry voting without a proper education is as irresponsible as putting them in charge of a trireme sailing to Samos in a storm.

...Socrates was to have first-hand catastrophic experience of the foolishness of the voters....

My thought on the Ethiopia case
.. twist and bend the hand of the voter in your favour, you can't let the drunk and irresponsible decide a nation 120 million for the sake of democracy.fu*ck democracy
.
Ethnicity is not a goal, in my view, but a means to a goal. A goal is a just system, however you may define what that means.

Ethnicity didn't drop from a sky at once but was born out of years of crying for a just system and if the goal is a just system, then there must be also a means outside of ethnicity to get there. There are many roads to Rome, or something similar, goes the saying.

Do I deny that ethnicity was also abused, no by no means. It was abused very much and reached the state of being used to incite violence based on ethnicity, which has got nothing in common with a just system for all.

So, the solution lies in crafting a suitable means to achieve the same goal ethnicity has been used to pursue so far and nobody will care about it anymore.

The problem is that there are many peoples who want to get back to the same old ways and that course is destined to face many more hurdles and pitfalls and will not succeed in achieving its stated goal.

I was watching recently a short video clip on the internet about the newest region in the country, the Sidama Region, which is also one of the smallest in this regard. The video just showed how the area looked a paradise on earth, if people knew how to utilize it, but the region was neglected for so long despite such a potential, that is what we called a lack of just system in the country and going back to square one is not the solution, in my view again.

Many people claimed that Sidama will never be a viable region for self-administration and we will see how much that was a wrong preposition in less than 10 years time to come.

Abere
Member
Posts: 2610
Joined: 18 Jul 2019, 20:52

Re: should Ethiopia let the ethnocentric party decide its fate, just for the sake of democracy? fu*ck Democracy

Post by Abere » 20 Jun 2021, 10:28

Blueshift,

--- The reason why European countries got their look today is not because of they are democratic rather because of the impoverishment of Africa. The poverty of Africa is the wealth of the European world. The very reason why Africans remain in perpetual cycle of poverty is due to the fact they want to look a like their former colonial powers that amassed wealth from Africa and then escaped poverty. Most African dictators attempt to copycat their colonial masters and run a political and bureaucratic structure miniaturing the West. European did not change their culture, they improved it but they changed their economic situation from poverty and hunger to wealth and affluence. Remember, sustainability of economic development demands a proven sustainable strategy of destabilizing Africa - that is what we have been witnessing over the last recent decades. And Eritrea , in my opinion, is also by default a victim of this Western destabilizing strategy. The 20 years of economic sanctions explains (without exaggeration) 99.5% of the impoverishment of Eritrea more than its own internal political affairs - I don't have much knowledge about that. But I feel the Western world was so much cruel about Eritrea by marginalizing the citizen of that country from meaningful global economic participation. Imagine how hypocritical the West is now, they are crying foul for the present problem in Tigray province (which they themselves sponsored it), because TPLF is dying in wearing civilian cloth and its rag tag rebels raping women. Did the West voice for Eritreans at the same level of tone it did for Tigray now? Never, at all. As it did not to the genocide of more than 5 million Amhara.

--- In this world, humanity accomplish things under constraints ( time, resource, skills, political , global environment etc.). No matter how strong and kind heart a person is there are host of constraints. External threat and constrains can definitely stifle the good will of any leader. Thus, single most enemy of Eritreans is TPLF. Yes, I say it again TPLF. TPLF throttled the development of Eritrea and it sabotaged the future path of Eritrea. I don't think Isais is the major reason for the problems you mention. On the other hand, the fact that Ethiopia has a shinny city of Addis Ababa does not mean Addis Ababians and Ethiopians are better of today than they were 30 years ago. Urban poverty in Ethiopia is at its highest level in history. Corruption created skewed wealth distribution and mass poverty - this is unhealth. The hypocrite TPLF and its dying political infrastructure imported undesirable elements into the country. First, the Ethiopian economy is external aid funded and NGO run business, it is not an endogenous one. NGOs imported a lot socially undesirable elements - [deleted]'s, pente, drug, political disability, etc. in the name of aid. Some of the development we noticed are mainly because of the diaspora and in fact population growth spurred by some entrepreneurs not due to better political system in the country. The Ethiopian political system is the worst in the worlds. You can see how many cities were burnt down to the ground with all their big and small business. Think before you this for Eritrea. The smartest thing to do is coming and meeting to the middle ground so that everyone will feel wining. Orchestrating whatever the European world talking about is the most absurd thing - because we know this from the past.



Blueshift wrote:
19 Jun 2021, 21:36
Abere,

No body said, democracy is perfect. But, it is the better system that holds the country together. Look at European countries. Look at their way of life. The standard of living. Compare that with the dictatorial bantus and where they are. The whole Europe combined does not have natural wealth as the poor country of Africa known as Zaire. Problems in Africa, Africans should look in the mirror. Here are some examples of Asian tigers who were in worst situation than Africa back in the fifties. South Korea, Singapore, etc... Eritrea is far better located in the strategic sea called the RedSea, than Singapore, on the South East China sea. Look at the two countries. Compare Eritrea to Singapore back in the 90's and Eritrea today. That would make them comparable in regard to age after independence. Anyhow, No dictator can survive in Ethiopia anymore. Ethiopians have tasted a sense of little freedom during HIM and the Weyanes as crooks as they were. They were able to give Addis a new face. Back in 1935, Asmara was compared to some Italian beautiful cities. Addis Ababa was nothing but a muddy village. Now compare the two cities together. That is frightening. Is that what you want to shoot for ? What Ethiopian need first and foremost is peace. Peace does not come from a single winner in the stakeholders company. Only fair negotiation makes it possible. Ethiopia of the old is not coming back again. May be tourism staff. Weyanes era is not coming back again either. You guys need to negotiate if you want a country called Ethiopia.

Abere
Member
Posts: 2610
Joined: 18 Jul 2019, 20:52

Re: should Ethiopia let the ethnocentric party decide its fate, just for the sake of democracy? fu*ck Democracy

Post by Abere » 20 Jun 2021, 10:28

Blueshift,

--- The reason why European countries got their look today is not because of they are democratic rather because of the impoverishment of Africa. The poverty of Africa is the wealth of the European world. The very reason why Africans remain in perpetual cycle of poverty is due to the fact they want to look a like their former colonial powers that amassed wealth from Africa and then escaped poverty. Most African dictators attempt to copycat their colonial masters and run a political and bureaucratic structure miniaturing the West. European did not change their culture, they improved it but they changed their economic situation from poverty and hunger to wealth and affluence. Remember, sustainability of economic development demands a proven sustainable strategy of destabilizing Africa - that is what we have been witnessing over the last recent decades. And Eritrea , in my opinion, is also by default a victim of this Western destabilizing strategy. The 20 years of economic sanctions explains (without exaggeration) 99.5% of the impoverishment of Eritrea more than its own internal political affairs - I don't have much knowledge about that. But I feel the Western world was so much cruel about Eritrea by marginalizing the citizen of that country from meaningful global economic participation. Imagine how hypocritical the West is now, they are crying foul for the present problem in Tigray province (which they themselves sponsored it), because TPLF is dying in wearing civilian cloth and its rag tag rebels raping women. Did the West voice for Eritreans at the same level of tone it did for Tigray now? Never, at all. As it did not to the genocide of more than 5 million Amhara.

--- In this world, humanity accomplish things under constraints ( time, resource, skills, political , global environment etc.). No matter how strong and kind heart a person is there are host of constraints. External threat and constrains can definitely stifle the good will of any leader. Thus, single most enemy of Eritreans is TPLF. Yes, I say it again TPLF. TPLF throttled the development of Eritrea and it sabotaged the future path of Eritrea. I don't think Isais is the major reason for the problems you mention. On the other hand, the fact that Ethiopia has a shinny city of Addis Ababa does not mean Addis Ababians and Ethiopians are better of today than they were 30 years ago. Urban poverty in Ethiopia is at its highest level in history. Corruption created skewed wealth distribution and mass poverty - this is unhealth. The hypocrite TPLF and its dying political infrastructure imported undesirable elements into the country. First, the Ethiopian economy is external aid funded and NGO run business, it is not an endogenous one. NGOs imported a lot socially undesirable elements - [deleted]'s, pente, drug, political disability, etc. in the name of aid. Some of the development we noticed are mainly because of the diaspora and in fact population growth spurred by some entrepreneurs not due to better political system in the country. The Ethiopian political system is the worst in the worlds. You can see how many cities were burnt down to the ground with all their big and small business. Think before you this for Eritrea. The smartest thing to do is coming and meeting to the middle ground so that everyone will feel wining. Orchestrating whatever the European world talking about is the most absurd thing - because we know this from the past.



Blueshift wrote:
19 Jun 2021, 21:36
Abere,

No body said, democracy is perfect. But, it is the better system that holds the country together. Look at European countries. Look at their way of life. The standard of living. Compare that with the dictatorial bantus and where they are. The whole Europe combined does not have natural wealth as the poor country of Africa known as Zaire. Problems in Africa, Africans should look in the mirror. Here are some examples of Asian tigers who were in worst situation than Africa back in the fifties. South Korea, Singapore, etc... Eritrea is far better located in the strategic sea called the RedSea, than Singapore, on the South East China sea. Look at the two countries. Compare Eritrea to Singapore back in the 90's and Eritrea today. That would make them comparable in regard to age after independence. Anyhow, No dictator can survive in Ethiopia anymore. Ethiopians have tasted a sense of little freedom during HIM and the Weyanes as crooks as they were. They were able to give Addis a new face. Back in 1935, Asmara was compared to some Italian beautiful cities. Addis Ababa was nothing but a muddy village. Now compare the two cities together. That is frightening. Is that what you want to shoot for ? What Ethiopian need first and foremost is peace. Peace does not come from a single winner in the stakeholders company. Only fair negotiation makes it possible. Ethiopia of the old is not coming back again. May be tourism staff. Weyanes era is not coming back again either. You guys need to negotiate if you want a country called Ethiopia.

sebdoyeley
Member
Posts: 4532
Joined: 14 Feb 2020, 04:27

Re: should Ethiopia let the ethnocentric party decide its fate, just for the sake of democracy? fu*ck Democracy

Post by sebdoyeley » 20 Jun 2021, 14:15

There are people who see it as a goal,
Ethnicity is not a goal, in my view, but a means to a goal.
DefendTheTruth wrote:
20 Jun 2021, 05:25
sebdoyeley wrote:
19 Jun 2021, 17:59
Socrates
The whole business of Democracy.
..If you are heading out on a journey to the sea, who would you ideally want to decide who would be in charge of the vessel?
..just anyone? asked Socrates.

.....should we let the foolish and irresponsible people decide our fate? or the expertise and well-informed people?
of course, the expertise and the well informed we should put our fate.

So, why then, do we keep thinking that any person should be fit to judge, who should be a ruler of a country.

Socrates Argues:
..voting in an Election should be taught like any other skills, not a random intuition, It needs to be taught systematically to people.
...Letting the citizenry voting without a proper education is as irresponsible as putting them in charge of a trireme sailing to Samos in a storm.

...Socrates was to have first-hand catastrophic experience of the foolishness of the voters....

My thought on the Ethiopia case
.. twist and bend the hand of the voter in your favour, you can't let the drunk and irresponsible decide a nation 120 million for the sake of democracy.fu*ck democracy
.
Ethnicity is not a goal, in my view, but a means to a goal. A goal is a just system, however you may define what that means.

Ethnicity didn't drop from a sky at once but was born out of years of crying for a just system and if the goal is a just system, then there must be also a means outside of ethnicity to get there. There are many roads to Rome, or something similar, goes the saying.

Do I deny that ethnicity was also abused, no by no means. It was abused very much and reached the state of being used to incite violence based on ethnicity, which has got nothing in common with a just system for all.

So, the solution lies in crafting a suitable means to achieve the same goal ethnicity has been used to pursue so far and nobody will care about it anymore.

The problem is that there are many peoples who want to get back to the same old ways and that course is destined to face many more hurdles and pitfalls and will not succeed in achieving its stated goal.

I was watching recently a short video clip on the internet about the newest region in the country, the Sidama Region, which is also one of the smallest in this regard. The video just showed how the area looked a paradise on earth, if people knew how to utilize it, but the region was neglected for so long despite such a potential, that is what we called a lack of just system in the country and going back to square one is not the solution, in my view again.

Many people claimed that Sidama will never be a viable region for self-administration and we will see how much that was a wrong preposition in less than 10 years time to come.

Sadacha Macca
Senior Member
Posts: 10919
Joined: 22 Feb 2014, 16:46

Re: should Ethiopia let the ethnocentric party decide its fate, just for the sake of democracy? fu*ck Democracy

Post by Sadacha Macca » 20 Jun 2021, 14:40

You can disagree with it all you want, but the fact is, Ethiopia is far more complex, and different, than Eritrea.
People tend to mobilize themselves and identify, primarily, along ethnic lines. It is what it is, it's as simple as that.

Abere
Member
Posts: 2610
Joined: 18 Jul 2019, 20:52

Re: should Ethiopia let the ethnocentric party decide its fate, just for the sake of democracy? fu*ck Democracy

Post by Abere » 20 Jun 2021, 14:56

How much complex, diverse and large is Ethiopia compared to USA? There is nothing heard of the state/ክልል/ of Hispanic, Black, White, etc. of USA which is inhabited by more than 340 million people. Why should Ethiopia (የበሬ ግንባር የምታህል ) the size of one of U.S.s state condemned to have linguistic regions? In Ethiopia, there even there is only race race, Black race. Language is artificial it is not even natural like race. Why a different anomalous prescription for the country Ethiopia a size of your palm? In my belief, simply tribal zealots use this as strategy for their personal advantage. Zealots like Meles Zenawi, Dawud Ibsa, Jawar et al use this cheap tactic to trade on the back of innocent Ethiopians, a country where even this artificial man made boundary does not apply for million Ethiopians. Like it or not tribal politics in Ethiopia is lifeless.

Sadacha Macca wrote:
20 Jun 2021, 14:40
You can disagree with it all you want, but the fact is, Ethiopia is far more complex, and different, than Eritrea.
People tend to mobilize themselves and identify, primarily, along ethnic lines. It is what it is, it's as simple as that.

Sadacha Macca
Senior Member
Posts: 10919
Joined: 22 Feb 2014, 16:46

Re: should Ethiopia let the ethnocentric party decide its fate, just for the sake of democracy? fu*ck Democracy

Post by Sadacha Macca » 26 Jun 2021, 14:39

Abere wrote:
20 Jun 2021, 14:56
How much complex, diverse and large is Ethiopia compared to USA? There is nothing heard of the state/ክልል/ of Hispanic, Black, White, etc. of USA which is inhabited by more than 340 million people. Why should Ethiopia (የበሬ ግንባር የምታህል ) the size of one of U.S.s state condemned to have linguistic regions? In Ethiopia, there even there is only race race, Black race. Language is artificial it is not even natural like race. Why a different anomalous prescription for the country Ethiopia a size of your palm? In my belief, simply tribal zealots use this as strategy for their personal advantage. Zealots like Meles Zenawi, Dawud Ibsa, Jawar et al use this cheap tactic to trade on the back of innocent Ethiopians, a country where even this artificial man made boundary does not apply for million Ethiopians. Like it or not tribal politics in Ethiopia is lifeless.

Sadacha Macca wrote:
20 Jun 2021, 14:40
You can disagree with it all you want, but the fact is, Ethiopia is far more complex, and different, than Eritrea.
People tend to mobilize themselves and identify, primarily, along ethnic lines. It is what it is, it's as simple as that.

Comparing two different countries with drastically different histories, realities, etc, is simply idiotic to say the least. There is no comparison. What you call ''tribal,'' is what others call representing their nations and who/what they are. Simple as that-you have to at least *try* to see things from the perspective of others, while not always focusing on how YOU and other Amhara-Ethiopians see things.

sebdoyeley
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Posts: 4532
Joined: 14 Feb 2020, 04:27

Re: should Ethiopia let the ethnocentric party decide its fate, just for the sake of democracy? fu*ck Democracy

Post by sebdoyeley » 26 Jun 2021, 14:55

I can agree with bad history between the people at the past that maybe one of the Factor make the people to tend to their own kind
but certainly not the size.
How money country bigger than Ethiopia? more Tham 50 and they live peacefully.
With better system fair election, Ethiopia will on the right path.

Sadacha, can you mention on country with one ethnic?
Sadacha Macca wrote:
26 Jun 2021, 14:39
Abere wrote:
20 Jun 2021, 14:56
How much complex, diverse and large is Ethiopia compared to USA? There is nothing heard of the state/ክልል/ of Hispanic, Black, White, etc. of USA which is inhabited by more than 340 million people. Why should Ethiopia (የበሬ ግንባር የምታህል ) the size of one of U.S.s state condemned to have linguistic regions? In Ethiopia, there even there is only race race, Black race. Language is artificial it is not even natural like race. Why a different anomalous prescription for the country Ethiopia a size of your palm? In my belief, simply tribal zealots use this as strategy for their personal advantage. Zealots like Meles Zenawi, Dawud Ibsa, Jawar et al use this cheap tactic to trade on the back of innocent Ethiopians, a country where even this artificial man made boundary does not apply for million Ethiopians. Like it or not tribal politics in Ethiopia is lifeless.

Sadacha Macca wrote:
20 Jun 2021, 14:40
You can disagree with it all you want, but the fact is, Ethiopia is far more complex, and different, than Eritrea.
People tend to mobilize themselves and identify, primarily, along ethnic lines. It is what it is, it's as simple as that.

Comparing two different countries with drastically different histories, realities, etc, is simply idiotic to say the least. There is no comparison. What you call ''tribal,'' is what others call representing their nations and who/what they are. Simple as that-you have to at least *try* to see things from the perspective of others, while not always focusing on how YOU and other Amhara-Ethiopians see things.
Last edited by sebdoyeley on 26 Jun 2021, 16:42, edited 2 times in total.

Abere
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Posts: 2610
Joined: 18 Jul 2019, 20:52

Re: should Ethiopia let the ethnocentric party decide its fate, just for the sake of democracy? fu*ck Democracy

Post by Abere » 26 Jun 2021, 15:19

In my opinion this will take us back to what sebdoyeley inquired "... just for the sake of democracy?"

Who defines democracy? Who is now the best democracy model? If there is no democracy elsewhere that means every independent country is democratic in its own context. The incoherent problem, especially third world cadres use things selectively as they feel convenient to their own interest. They take the U.S as the best success story and model of democracy; copay and paste the U.S. constitution use it as their own reference but their narratives or modes crash, the U.S. and us are different countries. If we are different countries, then there is no democracy so each country is democratic and has valid government.

--- In my opinion for a certain thing to be of significant value of consideration, there has to be universal theory on it and there has to be as well empirical evidences on it. If there is inconsistent and selective approach then it is unacceptable. No money, time and resource should be spent on it.

--- Ethiopia is multilingual country as there are many other countries across the world. Ethiopia is a Nation and populated by one Black race. What is unique about Ethiopia is , its one of the oldest Nation that practiced government system for thousands of years - which can be exploited as an opportunity. Ethiopia had both moral and legal codes for thousands of years - she is not starting from Zero like others that started from scratch out of necessity, because they did not have one. Unlike the industrial world, where social relation is superficial, more anonymous , Ethiopians developed strong social bonds and cultural ties for thousands of years that meshed people organically. Simply, there are some dissident tribalists that copycatted others does not mean it corresponds the reality on the ground neither it will bring valid political system. 30 years is more than enough to prove, ethnic federation has miserably failed and no body recognizes OLF/TPLF constitution, it is only their own internal by-law.




sebdoyeley wrote:
26 Jun 2021, 14:55
I can agree with bad history between the people at the past that maybe one of the Factor the people to tend to their ethnicity but certainly not the size.
How money country bigger than Ethiopia? more Tham 50 and they live peacefully.
With better system fair election, Ethiopia will on the right road.
Sadacha Macca wrote:
26 Jun 2021, 14:39
Abere wrote:
20 Jun 2021, 14:56
How much complex, diverse and large is Ethiopia compared to USA? There is nothing heard of the state/ክልል/ of Hispanic, Black, White, etc. of USA which is inhabited by more than 340 million people. Why should Ethiopia (የበሬ ግንባር የምታህል ) the size of one of U.S.s state condemned to have linguistic regions? In Ethiopia, there even there is only race race, Black race. Language is artificial it is not even natural like race. Why a different anomalous prescription for the country Ethiopia a size of your palm? In my belief, simply tribal zealots use this as strategy for their personal advantage. Zealots like Meles Zenawi, Dawud Ibsa, Jawar et al use this cheap tactic to trade on the back of innocent Ethiopians, a country where even this artificial man made boundary does not apply for million Ethiopians. Like it or not tribal politics in Ethiopia is lifeless.

Sadacha Macca wrote:
20 Jun 2021, 14:40
You can disagree with it all you want, but the fact is, Ethiopia is far more complex, and different, than Eritrea.
People tend to mobilize themselves and identify, primarily, along ethnic lines. It is what it is, it's as simple as that.

Comparing two different countries with drastically different histories, realities, etc, is simply idiotic to say the least. There is no comparison. What you call ''tribal,'' is what others call representing their nations and who/what they are. Simple as that-you have to at least *try* to see things from the perspective of others, while not always focusing on how YOU and other Amhara-Ethiopians see things.

Dawi
Member
Posts: 3989
Joined: 30 Aug 2016, 03:47

Re: should Ethiopia let the ethnocentric party decide its fate, just for the sake of democracy? fu*ck Democracy

Post by Dawi » 26 Jun 2021, 16:43

Abere wrote:
20 Jun 2021, 10:28
Blueshift,
...And Eritrea , in my opinion, is also by default a victim of this Western destabilizing strategy. The 20 years of economic sanctions explains (without exaggeration) 99.5% of the impoverishment of Eritrea more than its own internal political affairs - I don't have much knowledge about that. But I feel the Western world was so much cruel about Eritrea by marginalizing the citizen of that country from meaningful global economic participation. Imagine how hypocritical the West is now, they are crying foul for the present problem in Tigray province (which they themselves sponsored it), because TPLF is dying in wearing civilian cloth and its rag tag rebels raping women. Did the West voice for Eritreans at the same level of tone it did for Tigray now? Never, at all. As it did not to the genocide of more than 5 million Amhara.

--------Thus, single most enemy of Eritreans is TPLF. Yes, I say it again TPLF. TPLF throttled the development of Eritrea and it sabotaged the future path of Eritrea. I don't think Isais is the major reason for the problems you mention. On the other hand, the fact that Ethiopia has a shinny city of Addis Ababa does not mean Addis Ababians and Ethiopians are better of today than they were 30 years ago. Urban poverty in Ethiopia is at its highest level in history. Corruption created skewed wealth distribution and mass poverty - this is unhealth. .........
Abere,

As much as I like to go along with you, the fact that Singapore was kicked out of the Malaysian Union by Malaysians & eventually succeeded as a country while in Eritrea's case, the opposite took place, consequently, they angered nationalists Ethiopians & ended up to be a miserably "failed state"? That is something to be frank about.

It's not only TPLF that fkd Eritrea; in fact, Woyane made it "milder" on them for an ulterior reason we all know about, greater Tigrai! :P

Having said that, after the TPLF demise and the partnership formed particularly with the Amhara, Eritrea is set today in the right pass. Ethiopians appreciate dealing with our common enemy squarely; more than the immense harm they inflicted on us, making us land locked by seceding from Ethiopia for no plausible reason. EPLF could have claimed Ethiopia as much as TPLF. They were no strangers!

As far as the past deeds of Isaias/EPLF, I say, Eritrea, is more or less vindicated today. Access to Asab, Ras Demera? Ethio-Navy? shall solidify the partnership for eternity.

Cheers!

sebdoyeley
Member
Posts: 4532
Joined: 14 Feb 2020, 04:27

Re: should Ethiopia let the ethnocentric party decide its fate, just for the sake of democracy? fu*ck Democracy

Post by sebdoyeley » 26 Jun 2021, 17:33

I was not interested in your [deleted] behind for so long but here is my two cents.

what put a country under the category of a failed state?
since you, the GAHB mentioned it, I was hoping to hear from you but let's see, what the UN say.

A failed state is a political body that has disintegrated to a point where basic conditions and responsibilities of a sovereign government no longer function properly
Gahba Dawi, which country do you want to be put here. Eritrea or Ethiopia perhaps swiss?

as we speak people are hanged and dragged by their neck just B/C they belong to other ethnicities.
sometimes they crucified them like Jesus. we never heard like this before. yet you move your BUSHTY A$$ to preach to us about the failed state.

Gahba Dawi :- there is a problem in Eritrea which no one can deny it, Let's say you are better than us for the sake of argument even it is expired Candan wheat.
people get hungry every day, but at least they don't have any fear of being crucifying or dragged on the straight for being in the wrong neighbourhood.,
that is something to all of us :lol: :lol: :lol: well I am done with worthless Mitri.
I am fully aware that in every reply to your post, I hurt people who I love dearly but we don't have a choice. I got to do it.
[=Dawi post_id=1196970 time=1624740194 user_id=45320]
Abere wrote:
20 Jun 2021, 10:28
Blueshift,
...And Eritrea , in my opinion, is also by default a victim of this Western destabilizing strategy. The 20 years of economic sanctions explains (without exaggeration) 99.5% of the impoverishment of Eritrea more than its own internal political affairs - I don't have much knowledge about that. But I feel the Western world was so much cruel about Eritrea by marginalizing the citizen of that country from meaningful global economic participation. Imagine how hypocritical the West is now, they are crying foul for the present problem in Tigray province (which they themselves sponsored it), because TPLF is dying in wearing civilian cloth and its rag tag rebels raping women. Did the West voice for Eritreans at the same level of tone it did for Tigray now? Never, at all. As it did not to the genocide of more than 5 million Amhara.
--------Thus, single most enemy of Eritreans is TPLF. Yes, I say it again TPLF. TPLF throttled the development of Eritrea and it sabotaged the future path of Eritrea. I don't think Isais is the major reason for the problems you mention. On the other hand, the fact that Ethiopia has a shinny city of Addis Ababa does not mean Addis Ababians and Ethiopians are better of today than they were 30 years ago. Urban poverty in Ethiopia is at its highest level in history. Corruption created skewed wealth distribution and mass poverty - this is unhealth. .........
Abere,

As much as I like to go along with you, the fact that Singapore was kicked out of the Malaysian Union by Malaysians & eventually succeeded as a country while in Eritrea's case, the opposite took place, consequently, they angered nationalists Ethiopians & ended up to be a miserably "failed state"? That is something to be frank about.

It's not only TPLF that fkd Eritrea; in fact, Woyane made it "milder" on them for an ulterior reason we all know about, greater Tigrai! :P

Having said that, after the TPLF demise and the partnership formed particularly with the Amhara, Eritrea is set today in the right pass. Ethiopians appreciate dealing with our common enemy squarely; more than the immense harm they inflicted on us, making us land locked by seceding from Ethiopia for no plausible reason. EPLF could have claimed Ethiopia as much as TPLF. They were no strangers!

As far as the past deeds of Isaias/EPLF, I say, Eritrea, is more or less vindicated today. Access to Asab, Ras Demera? Ethio-Navy? shall solidify the partnership for eternity.

Cheers!
[/quote]

Dawi
Member
Posts: 3989
Joined: 30 Aug 2016, 03:47

Re: should Ethiopia let the ethnocentric party decide its fate, just for the sake of democracy? fu*ck Democracy

Post by Dawi » 26 Jun 2021, 18:38

sebdoyeley wrote:
26 Jun 2021, 17:33
I was not interested in your [deleted] behind for so long but here is my two cents.

what put a country under the category of a failed state?
since you, the GAHB mentioned it, I was hoping to hear from you but let's see, what the UN say.

A failed state is a political body that has disintegrated to a point where basic conditions and responsibilities of a sovereign government no longer function properly
Gahba Dawi, which country do you want to be put here. Eritrea or Ethiopia perhaps swiss?

as we speak people are hanged and dragged by their neck just B/C they belong to other ethnicities.
sometimes they crucified them like Jesus. we never heard like this before. yet you move your
to preach to us about the failed state.

Gahba Dawi :- there is a problem in Eritrea which no one can deny it, Let's say you are better than us for the sake of argument even it is expired Candan wheat.
people get hungry every day, but at least they don't have any fear of being crucifying or dragged on the straight for being in the wrong neighbourhood.,
that is something to all of us :lol: :lol: :lol: well I am done with worthless Mitri.
I am fully aware that in every reply to your post, I hurt people who I love dearly but we don't have a choice. I got to do it.
[=Dawi post_id=1196970 time=1624740194 user_id=45320]
soyboy! :P

You said, "I was not interested in your [deleted] behind"? ቡሽቲ መሆንህን እናውቃለን፤ አትንገረን፣ በቃ!

Your nick name is North Korea! Got that? I didn't make that up. Helping today's "duket" TPLF to win power in Ethiopia in the past put you at the bottom; same "honorable" place with your former twin partner. That's going to change.

Now, you've earned to emulate Singapore for a 2nd time in Isaias's life; Lucky dog you! OK? I say, yes you can!

Bottom line, Joining your southern neighbor p2 in kind, shall propel you to that level soon. I guarantee it !

Inshallah!

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