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Re: Historical Atlas of the Horn of Africa c. 1300-1600

Postby Khysion » 27 Feb 2018, 22:23

James Dahl: Have you not heard the oral tradition by the Garre clan? They actually once dominated the Gedo region which according to your map is Luuq province and were part of the Ajuuran Empire but after the succeeding Geledi Sultanate came into power during the fall of Ajuran Empire in the late 17th century that's when Garre migrated out and settled in Dawa river with the Borana clan. The Garre traditions are literally recorded, they refused to be under the Geledi rule so they were banished from their lands in Gedo and were forced to migrate else where.

You're right. All East Cushitic had a common ancestor but they started to diversify 10 thousands years ago, not several thousand years ago. Also, there are branches within East Cushitic. For example Somalis close cousins are Afar and Saho while Sidamo close cousins are Hadiye and Gedeo. The Oromo s close cousin is Rendille and basically East Cushitic is divided into branches.

Also, the Ajuran ancestor which is Beled, Samaale claim to migrated from Berbera in the 5th century but nobody is certain if they actually dominated Berbera those times.

Re: Historical Atlas of the Horn of Africa c. 1300-1600

Postby James Dahl » 27 Feb 2018, 23:28

Well, not the Geledi, and the migration was from the north:

According to the Gharri’s oral traditional history and British colonial era records based on interview they had with then Gharri elders, regarding the origin of the Gharri people, the Gharri people came from red sea coast and settled at “Serar”, what is now known as arusi province of Ethiopia, They build mosques and homes made of stones. Then during the 1600th exodus of people’s movement, from the north reached the Gharri kingdom and fighting ensued because the enemies started looting the Gharri properties and herds. The Gharri were outnumbered and they were forced to immigrate toward southwest, and settled around filtu and Wachile areas.
The Gharri traditional historians state that the Gharri lived there for period of about 60 years without any disturbances. During that time they build stone houses and mosques around filtu and wachile especially around the dawa riverbanks in around fifty miles corridors from Malka Mari through Malka Dirir it were a standard way of building houses. Then later on the exodous of the Borana reached there. It was believed that was the first time they came in contact with the Borana

So, during late 1600 and early 1700, they lived with the Borana. Later on, things changed, and the Gharri were outnumbered by the Boran and the Borana tried to make them subjects and demand tribute. So, the Gharri decided to move back to their previous region of Confur through Juba land.

More context of the second migration from a Garre fellow

a long time ago our people were defeated by the oromo and boran in nothern kenya and pushed towards southern somalia... and most of them moved to settle near the river shabelle whereas our group decided to settle near baidoa and joined the Hariin sub clan which we have since mixed, married with and are now fully rahanweyn

Re: Historical Atlas of the Horn of Africa c. 1300-1600

Postby Khysion » 28 Feb 2018, 08:21

James Dahl: I honestly don't know where you got this information but I'm 100% sure I'm right. Firstly, Garre is not Samaale but belonging to the Sab division of Somalis. The Samaale division all speak Maxaa Tiri (i.e. Standard Somali) belong to other Somali clans (Darod, Dir, Hawiye and Isaaq). The Garre speak Af Garre which is part of Af Maay and Garre are a sub-group of Rahanweyn. The speakers of Mai Terreh (also known as Af-Maay) are the Sab division. You know Somalis are linguistically grouped into Mai Terreh and Maxaa Tiri, right?

The Rahanweyn clan are believed to be one of the earliest clans to settle in southern Somalia. They were known as Reewing in the ancient times and are said to have migrated from the north and settled in fertile plains and coastal provinces during the 1st century where they established farmlands and harbour ports.

If Garre is a sub-clan of Rahanweyn then that theory of them migrating from the north in the 17th century is false. I mean which part of Northern Somalia did they use to live? Where they part of Adal Sultanate?

According to Loan Lewis, the Garre clan were predominant in the Gedo region and were part of the Ajuran Empire just like the rest of Rahanweyn until the fall of Ajuran Empire the Geledi Sultanate succeeded and controlled large parts of the Horn. They temporarily ruled the Garre clan and heavily taxed them at the same time until the Garre tried to revolt against the Geledi rulers during the period of Geledi King: Yusuf Mahamud Ibrahim. Sultan Yusuf was furious by the Garre behaviour so he responded by sending 10 thousand cavalry forces which completely expelled the Garre clan from their lands and they were forced to migrate elsewhere where they settled in Dawa river and that's how they came into contact with the Borana community.

Who told you Borana clan were bullying Garre? Have you seriously not studied the what Garre did to Borana for 2 centuries? :lol:

"The Garre tribe migrated from Gedo after escaping from the imperialistic Geledi rulers and settled in Dawa River where they established a trade network in-land which helped boom Garres wealth. They began constructing mosques and residential homes made out of stones in Liban region and they were very happy from being subjected by no tribe so they lived on peacefully for many years until the Borana tribe got larger and changed everything after the Borana tribe claimed to hold the real authority in Dawa river. These Borana groups were differentiated into the cattle-keeping, while the Garre specialized in camel-keeping. They lived together, each with different pastoral focus. As competition for grazing lands and resources increased, conflicts emerged. The Borana tribe were pagans who believed in Waaq while the Garre tribe were pure Muslims and the different belief system and sharing Dawa river led to a massive war known as the battle of Dawa where the intense fighting was situated. The Garre won the war in a Decisive Victory against the Borana tribe where they beheaded the Borana King and converted the Borana population into Islam. The Garre tribe began ruling the Borana community for at least a century where they taxed them and the Borana tribe would also often pay tribute by giving their livestock and pretty young virgin women to young Garre men in order for two tribes to have a good relationship until the arrival of Menelik II where he freed the Borana tribe from the Garre dominance."

Yes, the Oromo expansion was a threat to the Somalis but thankfully Ajuran Empire and it's successor state Geledi Sultanate both successfully repelled the Oromo migration in southern Somalia from stealing our major rivers with fertile plain lands and wealthy coastal cities. During the Darood conquest when they conquered Tana river in Kenya from the Oromos that's when the Oromos stopped eying on the Somali territory because they knew Somalis are a whole new level when it comes to fighting. :lol:

Re: Historical Atlas of the Horn of Africa c. 1300-1600

Postby James Dahl » 28 Feb 2018, 12:50

Where did I get my information? From Garre people, where did you get your information from haha

Re: Historical Atlas of the Horn of Africa c. 1300-1600

Postby Khysion » 28 Feb 2018, 14:46

James Dahl: I bet you're going to say a white man lol. Trust me, the white man Lewis actually made discussions with many traditional Garre elders. The Geledis shared their piece of information for him so did the Borana and and boom he made this history. I actually believe it because it makes alot of sense. You know Somalis can't admit their brutal days because they don't like people to think they were victims of other tribe so they lie to make themselves feel better. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Somalis and their pride issue never ceases to amaze me. :lol:

Re: Historical Atlas of the Horn of Africa c. 1300-1600

Postby James Dahl » 28 Feb 2018, 17:13

Well there are several chronological and geographical problems with this theory. First of all the Geledi Sultanate did not exist before about 1700, and was strongest around Afgoye, not in the south. The south by the 1700s was already conquered by the Darod southern migration. The Garre moved south in the 1500s initially and the latter migration away from the Borana at the beginning of the 1600s, eventually settling throughout southern Somalia.

I'm not sure where Lewis is getting his ideas from but this theory that the Geledi were the cause of the Garre migrations is just silly. Also there is no evidence of Garre dominance of Borana politics, quite the opposite actually.

Re: Historical Atlas of the Horn of Africa c. 1300-1600

Postby Khysion » 28 Feb 2018, 17:46

James Dahl: Listen Geledi Sultanate was a Rahanweyn Kingdom ruled by the noble Geledi clan. Rahanweyn lived all of Jubbaland, Bay, Bakool and Lower Shabelle and it was all under the administration of Gobroon Dynasty centred in Afgooye. Geledi Sultanate was created by an ex-Ajuran general called Ibrahim Adeer who successfully pushed back the imperial Ajuran army out of Afgooye. He subsequently established the Geledi sultanate's ruling house, the Gobroon dynasty in the late 17th century.

Geledi Sultanate was a Rahanweyn Kingdom ruled by the noble Geledi clan which controlled the entire Jubba River and extending parts of Shebelle River and dominating the East African trade. The Geledi Sultanate had enough power to force the southern Arabians to pay tribute to the noble Geledi Rulers like Ahmed Yusuf (Gobroon).


After the weakening of Geledi Sultanate by Bimaal Sultanate centred in Merka at the Battle of Cagaaran that's when Darood migration began in the late 1800s and it's historically been documented.

Listen how did Borana become Muslims? They were literally pagans and were conquered by the Garre clan and ruled by them for atleast a century until Menelik freed them and even Ethiopian history records it. Garre was banished from Gedo because they tried to revolt against the imperialistic Geledi clan. You think Lewis a respected historian for Somalis made this up? :lol:

If Garre was dominated by Borana then they would've been pagans by now. You're not making any sense and all Rahanweyn migrated to south Somalia in the 1st century, not 15th century which includes Garre too.

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